Ep 104: Hey Jude

00:00The word ball, which is the name of the Northwest Semitic Storm deity, and so God is saying,

00:06get those nasty balls names at, balls names out of your mouth and hey everybody, I'm Dan

00:21McClellan and I'm Dan Beacher and you're listening to the Data Over Dogma podcast where

00:26we increase public access to the academic study of the Bible and religion and we combat

00:31the spread of misinformation about the same.

00:34How go things today, Dan?

00:36It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood.

00:38Life is good and we're, I'm, you know, it's funny.

00:43I'm kind of excited about today's show.

00:45All right.

00:46I'll be honest with you.

00:47I think we're, when you suggested that we just talk about the book of Jude, which is

00:52one of the, one of the single chapter books, you know, they're my favorite in the Bible.

00:58I didn't know what to expect because I don't know anything about Jude.

01:01So I read it and woof, I found a lot of things that I was eager to talk to you about.

01:07Yeah, it is, it is dense.

01:09So that's our chapter and verse up front and then at the end, we're going to go back into

01:13some stuff like we're going to get back into monotheism as a concept and, and the pushback

01:20that you have gotten because you keep saying that there isn't monotheism like a liar and

01:27other people are totally getting you with good verses.

01:32So, so you will be defending yourself, sir.

01:35Yes.

01:36I will be talking about some passages from mainly Deutero, Isaiah and a couple other scattered

01:43locations that people always immediately say, you're wrong because of these passages.

01:47And I'm going to talk about what those passages are saying in the view of, I would say maybe

01:55not the majority, but a increasing number of scholars are endorsing and I think will be

02:03the majority before within the next few years.

02:07So okay.

02:08Yes.

02:09Dude.

02:10Bold predictions coming out.

02:11We're coming in.

02:12Hi, baby.

02:13I'm editing a volume based on some a conference that we had last, yes, last year that will

02:20be one of the, one of the main volleys in this back and forth.

02:24Yeah.

02:25I don't say this lightly.

02:26We talked about that a number of times.

02:29So yes, I'm excited about all of that.

02:32But first, before we get all into all of that, we got Jude to get into so let's do a chapter

02:37and verse and this chapter and verse we are, we, so okay.

02:45It is a letter.

02:46Uh huh.

02:47It is a letter from Jude, a sermon named Jude.

02:51Yeah, which by the way, in the NRSVUE, I click on the footnote and it says the Greek is Judas

02:57and I'm like, why is it just not Judas then?

03:01So yeah, that is, that is a little peculiar, isn't it?

03:05So Judas is the, is the Greek and this is actually a Greek transliteration of the Hebrew

03:13name Judah.

03:15So one of the, the sons of Jacob, one of the 12 tribes of Israel and in the Greek transliteration,

03:25it's just spelled a little bit differently because of their naming convention.

03:28So we get, we get Euthas in, in Greek, which gets changed to Jude in English.

03:36It's so maddening to me.

03:37Can I just say the naming thing?

03:39It just frust, because okay, any of those would have been acceptable, but there's so

03:43many other versions of the same name and why are they getting translated differently or

03:49transliterated differently?

03:51Why are we like, it just like, and then the naming problem doesn't end there because right

03:56after that, Jude, a servant of Jesus Christ and brother of James, but not that James apparently,

04:04a different James.

04:05Or is it?

04:06Well, one would think that if he, if he were a brother of that James, he would have said

04:11a brother of Jesus Christ also.

04:13One would think and there's, and there's a lengthy debate about that within the scholarship.

04:18Yeah.

04:19Because what other, what other James is he talking about?

04:21I mean, it, he seems to be wanting to try to irrigate some authority based on this other

04:26James.

04:27And because why I'm talking about otherwise, yeah, if you're talking about James is with

04:31authority, there's the main one guy is James, the, the brother of Jesus, which would make

04:37this guy, the brother of Jesus, which would be an odd omission.

04:41I mean, you could trump James, the brother of Jesus by just going straight to Jesus, but

04:48there is an indication that Jesus maybe had another brother named Jude and, and to go

04:52back to why transliterate differently, I think traditionally the idea is you don't want to

04:59confuse this Jude with the other one who betrayed Jesus.

05:03So if this is the, the epistle of Judas, um, suddenly, uh, it gets a little, a little wonky.

05:10I understand that.

05:11But we haven't had that problem with so many other confusing the names.

05:16It's like, I get the, yeah, you don't want this guy to be confused with the dude who,

05:21who like actually did Jesus dirty.

05:24I, that's literally true.

05:25Yeah.

05:26El Dudorino as, uh, as he prefers to, uh, take the whole brevity, dude, yeah, uh, so okay.

05:33He starts off the letter.

05:34He's just like, hello, uh, this is me and, uh, and then you're looking for, um, yeah.

05:42And then says, uh, you know, hey, I was going to write to you about salvation and how great

05:48it is that we're all getting saved, but I can't because I need to write to you about

05:53this other thing that's really, really important.

05:57We've been trying to contact you regarding your vehicle's warranty, um, that would be,

06:04uh, that would be quite the, uh, the slow play.

06:07Yeah.

06:08Um, well, before we, I do want to talk briefly about date and authorship though, because

06:12there's more to the question as, uh, that whoever J, uh, whoever James is, whoever

06:18Jude is claiming to be, I think the majority of scholars suggest that's not actually who

06:23they were.

06:24Oh, uh, because this letter was probably written closer to the end of the first century

06:31CE or the beginning of the second century CE was probably not written contemporaneous with

06:37the life of, uh, James, the brother of Jesus and, uh, and so it's probably suit epic graphic,

06:44meaning that the person was probably writing in someone else's name, falsely irrigating

06:50their identity and thus their authority.

06:54And there have even been debates about this.

06:56Obviously folks who are committed to the inerrancy of, uh, and the inspiration of the entire

07:01Bible are going to want to defend traditional authorship.

07:07Yeah.

07:08There's not an, I would see that.

07:09I could see that.

07:10Yeah.

07:11That would make sense.

07:12Yeah.

07:13Um, there's not an incredibly strong argument to make.

07:14And there are some peculiarities about this that we're going to get into them that make

07:18it seem like maybe this is, um, this is somebody who's a little outside of, you know, the central

07:25hierarchy of, uh, the followers of Jesus.

07:29And so I personally think we're probably looking at, uh, the nineties or maybe the,

07:34the 100s, the aughts of the, uh, the second century CE, there are parts of this that seem

07:43to be referred to in the epistle of second Peter, um, and so, uh, most scholars think

07:51that second Peter is probably, uh, referencing parts of Jude.

07:55And so it has to have come before second Peter, however, second Peter is agreed by the majority

08:01of scholars to have been written like between 120 and 150 CE.

08:05Oh, so that was probably the last text that was written in the whole New Testament.

08:10So Jude is, is, uh, probably later than the majority of the gospels, probably, uh, much

08:16later than Paul, uh, but not quite as late as second Peter.

08:20So sorry.

08:21Uh, I just thought the, the table needed to be said a little bit regarding it.

08:25No, no, totally.

08:26Totally.

08:27So what you're saying is that this whole thing should be ignored, uh, as, as, as bunk,

08:32as baloney, as well, at least, uh, in terms of it's, it's, it's probably a, um, a forgery

08:41or a pseudepigraphic.

08:43Now there is, um, it probably was an actual letter that was sent to a group that makes

08:49sense.

08:50Yeah, it wasn't like this guy was like needed to come up with an artifact and so scribbled

08:54this down and was like, ah, I got, I got this thing.

08:57It probably was written in, in the name of this other person and probably sent, uh, but

09:02yeah, probably not, uh, by the actual Jude, the brother of, uh, of James and the brother

09:09of Jews.

09:10Yes.

09:11Uh, and, and also, uh, unlike many of the other epistles that we've encountered, this

09:15does not have a two line.

09:17Like we don't know who this was written to do we?

09:21Yes.

09:22I think there's, there's a greeting, uh, to those who are called who are beloved in God,

09:27the father and kept safe for Jesus Christ, which is, uh, a pretty broad designation.

09:34Yeah.

09:35It's not like the people who are saved who are in Thessaloniki or it's, it's just sent

09:42out broadly.

09:43Yeah.

09:44It just seems, it just seems like this is an open letter to everybody sort of almost.

09:48Yeah.

09:49This is a, this is Jude sub stack and it's just, you know, this is for anybody, uh, who,

09:55who cares, but mostly for my subscribers.

09:58And, uh, yeah, that, which would have been, you know, sending out a letter to everybody

10:02would have been a phenomenally difficult thing to do in antiquity because you can't just,

10:07you know, you can't just go down to the corner store and be like, gimme, uh, to kinkos and

10:12be like, gimme, you know, 300 copies of this.

10:14Right.

10:15Exactly.

10:16You had to pay somebody to scribble it out by hand and transcribe these things.

10:19And so to make copies of this is, is a phenomenally difficult thing to do.

10:22And generally what happened is somebody would get ahold of it and then they would have a

10:26couple of copies made and then those copies would be disseminated and someone who got

10:30ahold of one of them might have a couple copies made and then those would go on.

10:35So it was a slow process, but, um, but yeah, it took off.

10:40This was an important one to them.

10:41Yeah.

10:42Yeah.

10:43Which kind of baffles me because it doesn't feel like there's that much in it.

10:48There's a lot for us to talk about, but in terms of like when I put myself in the, in

10:52the shoes of people in that time, other than it feels like you send it to all of your friends

10:57who have a problem with grumblers, uh, in their, in their midst because it does seem

11:03like that's the issue at hand.

11:05Yeah.

11:06It is, um, it's, it's a bit of a caja.

11:08It is a complaining about, uh, these opponents, uh, these other folks who are, and, and most

11:16of the, the letter seems to be kind of quoting scriptures and referring to traditions.

11:22That's, uh, you know, in an effort to drag these folks.

11:26Yes.

11:27Yes.

11:28And it, and it, and it also it feels, we'll get to it.

11:31We'll get to it.

11:32It feels very, uh, from a particular perspective.

11:36It feels like this is, this is designed and aimed entirely at squashing one perspective

11:42or squashing a new idea and, and you guys all have to adhere to the way I'm thinking

11:49about things.

11:50Anyway, we'll get to that.

11:51Um, and in verse, and that you're going to read verse four, uh, I wasn't, uh, oh yes,

11:58I mean, we should read verse four.

11:59It's, yeah, because, because the, the reason for the letter, uh, isn't the salvation, which

12:05it was going to be, but rather verse four, for certain intruders have stolen in among

12:10you people who long, who long ago were designated for this condemnation as ungodly who pervert

12:17the grace of our God into debauchery and deny our only master and Lord Jesus Christ.

12:26So there you go.

12:27Ouch.

12:28Yeah.

12:29Now I was looking at another, uh, version of this, okay.

12:33And it, verse four, it ends with and denying the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.

12:42But so that's in the, the KJV, but in another version, it sounded like, and I was just,

12:48I have this, I have one app that will read it, read the Bible to me when I'm busily doing

12:54other things.

12:55So I was listening to it and I don't know what version that was because, uh, I'm using

13:00my phone to do our video, so I can't look it up on my phone right now.

13:04But it said, uh, it made it seem like it was and denying the only Lord, Lord God Jesus

13:12Christ, uh, conflating them as the same thing.

13:16Yes.

13:17I, so I did have a question about that, but I'm, but I don't have that version in front

13:23of me.

13:24Anyway, did, is, is there a reason why it might be translated that way or, um, well that that's

13:28just going to have to do with the, the manuscripts that we're looking at.

13:31So the King James version says turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness and denying

13:36the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.

13:41Right.

13:42And so let me just, um, that will be the textus receptus that, uh, the King James version

13:50will be based on, open in that up.

13:53Um, and yeah, it looks like, um, the Spoting Théon, Kay Kirion Himon, Yezun Criston.

14:03And, uh, so the definite article is not being used for, uh, any of these.

14:09And so these could, this could be interpreted to refer to one in the same entity that is

14:15described by, by both of those things.

14:18But, um, so it, so in, in the KJV adds the word and, uh, well, and is there.

14:26So Kay.

14:27So if they own Kay Kirion Himon, that's, um, that's and, but normally, uh, we would look

14:35at the definite article.

14:37There's, there's this rule about how, uh, you, uh, don't repeat the definite article.

14:42If you're, um, if you want the designation to kind of extend over, um, to be distributed,

14:50uh, and I've, I've explained that horribly, but I'm actually pulling up, uh, Bruce Metzger's

14:56New Testament textual commentary, which goes through all of the verses that have, uh, textual

15:02variations that are considered at all significant and talks about them and, and why they would,

15:08uh, they would or would not, uh, support those readings.

15:12And it looks like, or, uh, verse four, it doesn't really have.

15:19Okay.

15:20Okay.

15:21So it says, in order to avoid the ambiguity of whether, whether this protein, um, which

15:27means master desperate refers to Christ as in second Peter one, one, or to God as elsewhere

15:34in the New Testament, the Texas Receptus following a handful of manuscripts, um, appends that

15:41own.

15:43So adds that on the end, the shorter reading without the interpolation is decisively supported

15:48by and then lists a bunch of manuscripts, including like P 72, Sinaiticus, Alexandrinus,

15:54Vaticanus.

15:55So those are the most authoritative, right, um, so no other, or commentary, but it sounds

16:00like, yeah, the, um, it's, it, whatever the, the request.

16:04It's, or whatever the case, uh, that is a secondary edition.

16:08So the King James version should not be considered the authoritative one.

16:12Right.

16:13But yeah, it sounds like somebody later on is, is trying, looking for an opportunity to,

16:17um, to throw something Trinitarian in there.

16:21Yeah, and, and deny our only master and like, okay.

16:26So, so master and Lord Jesus Christ is probably the best way of looking at it.

16:34Yeah.

16:35Uh, okay.

16:36Good.

16:37It's a man.

16:38See, these, this is the reason why people get, I can see why lots of people pick a version

16:44and then just, oh, you know, will not stray from it because it just gets, you get into

16:51the weeds with this stuff.

16:52All right.

16:53Yeah.

16:54Yeah.

16:55But we do have in verse five, something that's, uh, that raises the specter.

17:04Of, uh, of the Trinity all over again.

17:06So, yeah.

17:07So, and that's kind of why I was, yeah, why I was hung up on the first thing is because

17:12now we get into verse five and it says, now I desire to remind you though you are fully

17:16informed once and for all that Jesus who saved a people out of the land of Egypt afterward

17:25destroyed those who did not believe that is, uh, you know, for that is the first time I've

17:33I personally, and I have not read this book cover to cover it, but that is the first time

17:37that I have read a scripture and thought, oh, that's a problem.

17:43That's a problem.

17:44And I see why the Trinitarians had to contend with it because I did not understand Jesus

17:51to be the one who had done that.

17:53Mm.

17:54I mean, presumably we're talking about the Exodus.

17:56We're not talking about that time when Jesus lived in Egypt and happened to save a bunch

18:00of people out there and we just don't know that story.

18:03Yeah.

18:04There was a there was a fire and he had to get everybody out and yeah, no, this, this is,

18:09uh, this is peculiar, but there are again, we've got manuscript variations here.

18:15There are some that read the Lord and then there are some that read God.

18:20Oh, and then there are some, there's at least one that reads God Christ.

18:26And so it's peculiar, it's obviously a little confusing because it's a difficult reading

18:33and say what Jesus did this.

18:34Wait a minute.

18:35The Hebrew Bible says God did this, uh, but, and so there's a principle with intellectual

18:40criticism called Lectio de Facilior.

18:42It's not like a hard and fast rule, but most of the time the trend is in the direction

18:48of making texts easier to understand.

18:50If you're going to mess up the text, it's going to be in the direction of making it

18:54easier to understand.

18:55And so whichever reading is less easy to understand tends to be the earlier reading.

19:02And that is, that is a bizarre reading, uh, that Jesus did this.

19:05So the attempts to change it to Lord or God or something like that are probably the secondary

19:10readings.

19:11Okay.

19:12I think most scholars today would say, yeah, it probably says Jesus.

19:15Now we have in the book of Exodus, uh, God being the one who is doing this kind of cause

19:24you also have another entity that is involved.

19:28And that is the messenger of the Lord because who appears to Moses in Exodus three, a lot

19:34of people, well in verse six, whoever appears to Moses says, I am the God of your father,

19:39the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob.

19:42But in verse two, the entity that appears to Moses in the flame of fire amidst the burning

19:47bush is explicitly said to be the angel of Adonai.

19:52And so this is one of those examples where, uh, that we see in judges that we see in Genesis,

19:57that we see here in Exodus, maybe in Joshua, where the identity of the angel of God is

20:03kind of, um, mixed up with the identity of God themselves.

20:08So you have the angel saying, I am the God of your father, um, and then in Exodus 23

20:16and verse 20, this is after the right after the 10 commandments, uh, and the, uh, the

20:22covenant code, you have God tell the, the Israelites, Hey, look, I'm sending an angel

20:28before you to guide you on the way.

20:32Don't disobey him.

20:33Don't piss him off because he does not have to forgive your transgressions because my name

20:39is in him and, and this is a bizarre verse, but, um, one of the things that I have argued

20:46in others, um, uh, I think this has been actually known.

20:52I think about it.

20:53I think I'm the, uh, if someone else has argued it, it's not in a very prominent publication.

20:58Um, but, um, I think this makes the most sense of things.

21:02What's going on here is this is probably trying to account for why we have these other passages

21:08where the angel of the Lord is identifying as the Lord.

21:12And that last part of it, my name is in him.

21:14The idea is that the angel does things that only God is supposed to be able to do because

21:20they are endowed with the divine name there.

21:23They authorize bearer of the divine name and, and incidentally the whole, he does not have

21:27to forgive your transgressions.

21:28There's only one other place in all the Bible where that occurs.

21:33And that's in Joshua 24 19 or Joshua tells the Israelites, Oh no, you can't worship God.

21:39He's a jealous God.

21:41He does not have to forgive your transgressions.

21:43The Hebrew is exactly identical.

21:45And so what the author of Exodus, uh, I argue is doing is alluding to that suggesting, Oh,

21:52the angel is doing the thing that Joshua says God does.

21:57And how can that be?

21:58Well, my name is in him.

21:59And what this results in in early Christianity as a result of other influences from Greek

22:05philosophy about the immateriality of God and that kind of stuff is a very early tradition

22:11within Christianity that Jesus was the angel of the Lord because Jesus is, is God in some

22:19sense.

22:20And the angel of the Lord is God in some sense.

22:24And so the pre mortal, uh, or the pre incarnation appearances of God are actually appearances

22:31of Jesus.

22:33And so when it says that, uh, Jesus saved the people out of the land of Egypt.

22:38Jesus is, if Jesus is the angel of the Lord, then the angel of the Lord is one who saved

22:43the people out of Jesus.

22:44So I think what it's doing is identifying Jesus as the angel of the Lord, right?

22:49Who is the one who appeared to Moses in Exodus three, who was the one who is going to lead

22:53everybody out of Egypt, uh, according to Exodus 23.

22:57So and then destroy the people who did not believe.

23:01Well, and the, yeah, hilarity ensues, there's, there's all kinds of, of things that happen

23:07as a result of that, but I think what's fascinating to me is that this isn't, you know, a, some

23:13sort of third century CE innovation or whatever.

23:16This is, this must have developed quick.

23:20This idea that Jesus was, uh, was the angel of God or somehow was conflated with God in

23:27like, like old Testament, he kind of God, I think that that's really interesting that

23:32that had already come about, uh, in by this time, well, and, and I think yeah, that it

23:40was already in circulation when the New Testament was being written because, uh, according to

23:45the argument that I've published in a couple of different places and we'll be publishing

23:49in a couple more within the next year, um, the, the template that is provided by the

23:57angel of the Lord, this, uh, not God, but also can claim to be God template.

24:02That conceptual template was one of the things that facilitated this kind of, oh, Jesus is

24:09God, but also not God.

24:11So I think that is what contributed to the conceptualization of Jesus's, um, identity

24:17and mission was this idea of, uh, one of, of a few different contributions because you

24:23also have the son of man tradition that is going on there.

24:26You also have, uh, you have a few different traditions going on, but I think the idea

24:30of Jesus as, um, patterned after this angel who bears God's name and so exercises God's

24:37authority.

24:38Yeah.

24:39Pops up very, very early and is in the gospels and it might even be in Paul, um, in Philippians,

24:46the Christ him, uh, Philippians two, uh, six through 10, uh, Paul Holloway has got a wonderful

24:52hermenea commentary on that, which is right here.

24:57And, uh, for those watching on the video, uh, those listening, that doesn't mean anything,

25:02but, um, I'm getting used to the fact that, uh, that people can't see me most of the time.

25:07That, um, yeah, most of the people who are getting this message are, are only hearing

25:12it.

25:13That's true.

25:14But, uh, and he talks about how this, this Christ him seems to reflect this, uh, second

25:19temple Jewish idea about a name-bearing angel.

25:23And so if that's already present in Paul, then that's present in our various, very,

25:28various, very earliest, uh, New Testament texts.

25:32Yeah.

25:33So yes, I, I think it is very early.

25:35That's interesting.

25:36Okay.

25:37Uh, I also wanted to get, I mean, we're only five verses in.

25:41We got to get through this thing, but I wanted to, then I got hung up on verse seven, uh,

25:46and part of that is because we have talked about, you know, we've talked about Sodom

25:50and Gomorrah and we've talked about how many people said, and many, many people assume

25:56and use the, use the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah as a reason to justify saying that

26:04God is against homosexuality.

26:06Now we've done a whole episode about that.

26:08And one of the things that we concluded, uh, was that, and you, you'll have to remind

26:14me what verse this comes from, but there's a verse that somewhere in the Old Testament,

26:18I think that says that the sin of Sodom was in hospitality.

26:23Yes.

26:24Yeah.

26:25Well, that's, um, in, uh, Ezekiel, and, um, I'm, for some reason, uh, blanking Ezekiel

26:311649.

26:32I got it right.

26:33Okay.

26:34Um, well, one of the most difficult things about, about being a Bible scholar is remembering

26:39verses because it's like, Oh man, they, they get messed up in your head real easy, at least

26:45in mind, but that's probably because I am neurodivergent in a lot of ways.

26:49But, um, it says this was the guilt of your sister Sodom.

26:53She and her daughters had pride, excess of food and prosperous ease, but did not aid

26:58the poor and needy.

27:00They were haughty and did abominable things before me.

27:03Therefore I removed them when I saw it.

27:07So, uh, yeah, according to Ezekiel, um, never says anything about, uh, same sex attraction

27:15or even same sex intercourse.

27:18And so at least for the, the earliest witnesses to this tradition, it, that doesn't seem to

27:24be the issue.

27:25Well, uh, Jude takes issue with you, sir, uh, and says in verse seven, likewise Sodom

27:33and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which in the same manner as they indulged in sexual

27:39immorality and pursued unnatural lust serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of

27:47eternal fire.

27:48Yes.

27:49Um, so now first of all, can I just say the fire of Sodom and Gomorrah was not eternal.

27:55It went out.

27:56No, it, this was not burning an eternal flame.

27:59Um, so I'm sorry, I'm going to have to go back to the, that was like my favorite song

28:03when I was in elementary school.

28:05And I don't know why I don't know why, but who is that?

28:10Pat Benatar?

28:11The Bengals?

28:12I don't know.

28:13I want to say it's the bangles, but, um, but I could be, um, but yeah, it was, uh, yep,

28:19it's the bangles.

28:20Okay.

28:21Um, yeah, I used to love that song anyway.

28:24So we've got to contextualize this a little bit as, um, as, you know, one must do.

28:29Now when, when apologists say context, what they mean is canonical context.

28:34You have to make it fit with everything else in the Bible, which presupposes that univocality.

28:39I want to talk about literary context, particularly in light of the first word of verse seven,

28:43which was what likewise, likewise to what?

28:46Likewise.

28:47What are we talking about here?

28:48Okay.

28:49Verse six, verse six, and the angels who did not keep their own position, but deserted

28:55their proper dwelling.

28:56He has kept an eternal chains in deepest darkness for the judgment of the great day.

29:01Right.

29:02This is a reference to first Enoch.

29:05This is a reference to the Enochic tradition, the idea that angels came down and they did

29:09the Hibidi Dibidi with the, the human women and that, um, resulted in these giants who

29:15resulted in the Nephilim who resulted in the demons who taught, uh, the w, the evils of,

29:20of warfare and of makeup to humanity.

29:23No, it says, so, so what happened?

29:26Angels had sex with human women, likewise, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities,

29:33which in the same manner as they, okay, indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural

29:39lust.

29:40Here's the problem, unnatural lust is an awful translation of Sarkozy Terras, which in Greek

29:47means flesh, other or other flesh.

29:51Right.

29:52Now, if it's translated unnatural lust, people will think what's more unnatural than, than

29:58two men doing what is unseemly, um, only, only very uninformed people think that that's

30:05unnatural.

30:06It's kind of the most natural thing if you look at the animal world, but that's okay.

30:10But, and, and I'm talking about the folks who, who are coming to this with the idea that,

30:15that, um, same sex intercourse and attraction is icky, right.

30:20But when it says other flesh, there's not really a case to make based on, on first century

30:26or, or early second century Greek, that this is a reference to same sex intercourse.

30:32Right.

30:33What it's a reference to is other flesh, angelic flesh, human flesh, they are pursuing other

30:38flesh in the book of Enoch, it was angels who had sex with humans in Genesis 19.

30:44It was the humans who threatened to sexually assault the angels.

30:48Right.

30:49And so the sexual immorality and the unnatural lust here is human men wanting to, or at least

30:57threatening to sexually assault, engage in sexual intercourse with angelic beings.

31:04And this is what, if you look this up in critical commentaries, this is what they will say.

31:09This seems to, to be about human angelic intercourse.

31:14And this was a controversy at the time.

31:15In fact, you can look in later rabbinic literature and they're talking about this because they're

31:20looking at Genesis six and they're going, what's up with these, these banalohim, these

31:24children of God, these must be angels and a bunch of rabbis were like angels aren't sexually

31:29compatible with humans.

31:31And then others were saying, well, they, they transformed into flames of fire and that allowed

31:36them to, to physically, uh, and sexually interact with humans.

31:39Others were like, no, no, the angels just showed up while the women were having sex

31:44with their husbands.

31:45And they were just, you know, yeah, the creep factor goes up, but yeah.

31:49So there were debates about the sexual compatibility of humans and angels.

31:53And so this is just reflecting that idea.

31:55Hey, it happened in first Enoch.

31:57That's what was so gross about what happened at Sodom and Gomorrah.

32:02And so again, this, this is not about same sex attraction.

32:05This is about something entirely different and interesting.

32:08Okay.

32:09Got it.

32:10I like it.

32:11Okay.

32:12And it does make sense.

32:13You're, you're absolutely right.

32:14That, that verse seven absolutely is referencing verse six right before it, which is all, which

32:21is about angels not keeping their proper dwelling, uh, as it were, yes, not keeping

32:29things where they belong, zipped up where they, they belonged, right.

32:35Um, uh, okay.

32:37So, Oh, go on, go on.

32:40Well, I was just going to say, um, and, and a good indication that, uh, the book of first

32:46Enoch is influential for the author of dude is the fact that the author of Jude explicitly

32:53quotes from the book of first Enoch in verses 14 and 15.

32:59And something interesting here, I want to say, uh, verse 14, it says, it was about these

33:04that Enoch in the seventh generation from Adam prophesied saying, see the Lord is coming

33:10with 10,000s of his holy ones to execute judgment on all and to convict all the ungodly

33:15of all the deeds of ungodliness that they have committed in such an ungodly way.

33:20And of all the harsh things that ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

33:23So he's, he's belaboring the ungodly point.

33:26Yeah.

33:27Um, I think, but this is, uh, directly quoting first Enoch one nine.

33:33Oh, okay.

33:34And so this is straight out of Enoch, um, which makes it like when I read that and, and saw

33:42that it was literally that it, like it's not just the words from Enoch, but like literally,

33:48like name checks Enoch himself and, and, and sort of gives proven provenance to where it's

33:55all coming from by saying, you know, seventh generation from Adam and stuff.

33:59Yeah.

34:00That made it so kind of shocking to me that Enoch didn't make it into the final cut when

34:06they, uh, when, when they were deciding what was going to be, you know, canon, yeah, it's

34:11that, that feels like genuinely shocking.

34:15Well, it's that this made it and that didn't, you know what I mean?

34:20And for the, for a long time, it was considered inspired and authoritative scripture, the author

34:25of Jude, whoever they were, their text ends up in the New Testament.

34:29Their text is inspired, uh, in, in, um, authoritative scripture and we have like authors, uh, like

34:37Tertullian was an early Christian writing around 200 CE who seems to acknowledge that

34:43people are questioning the authenticity, the authority, the inspiration of first Enoch

34:48and he swings into Enoch's defense and says, nope, this is 100% inspired scripture and,

34:53and his, uh, his closing volley after he's made all of his points about how it's, uh,

34:59you know, it could be historical.

35:01It can be all these things he, he ties it all off by saying, and it's quoted by the inspired

35:06author of Jude.

35:07So case closed and it's not only that feels like case closed to me.

35:12Yeah.

35:13That feels totally real.

35:14Yeah.

35:15And it's, and it's not only that it's quoted, you will have apologists today who'll be like,

35:18um, you know, Paul quoted some Greek philosophers in the book of Acts.

35:24Just because he quotes something doesn't mean that, uh, he's endorsing its inspiration

35:29or its authority, but he doesn't just say Enoch said this.

35:32He said Enoch prophesied.

35:34Yeah.

35:35And what is inspired scripture, if not the work of prophecy.

35:40This is how people understood the scriptures to be scriptures because they are spirit led

35:47to prophecy.

35:48And so the author of Jude quite explicitly calls this prophecy.

35:53Yeah.

35:54If that's, if that's not scripture, nothing can qualify as scripture.

35:59And so yeah, this is, uh, this is pretty clearly the author of Jude asserting the inspiration,

36:05the authority, the, uh, the scriptural nature of the book of first Enoch and what happened

36:10with Enoch is, is by the time you get into the third and the fourth centuries, you get

36:14people who are like, well, man, it's weird.

36:17Have you read it?

36:19And, um, and then they're like, you know, there are inconsistencies when then you get

36:22the same story being told, like three or four different ways and the names change and,

36:27and all that kind of stuff.

36:28Um, and then, um, they're like, wah, doubt this survived the flood because it would have

36:36to have been written before the flood.

36:38And the whole Pentateuch is supposed to, by this time the tradition arises that it was

36:43all written by Moses.

36:44So they're like, the oldest stuff we have is from Moses who's well after the flood.

36:48So they just felt it was not likely that this, uh, originated all the way back with Enoch.

36:55And so it falls out of favor in the fourth century, but not before some missionaries take

37:00Greek translations of it down to the kingdom of ox, soon, which would become what we now

37:04know of as Ethiopia.

37:06So it is officially part of the canon of the Ethiopian Orthodox to wahadu church to this

37:12day.

37:13Um, so yeah, the first he not got the shaft by, um, by the Europeans.

37:18But, uh, I mean, that pre flood surviving the flood, that, that, that also is pretty smart.

37:26That makes sense too.

37:27Yeah.

37:28They, they made some, they made some good points, um, but they, they made those points

37:33over and against their dogmas about inspiration.

37:35Right.

37:36Yeah.

37:37And, um, and, and other things like Jude happened to slip in without people, um, asking, uh,

37:42thinking very critically about what's going on about the origins and, uh, and, and authorship

37:47sort of thing.

37:49Yeah.

37:50All right.

37:51Uh, we got to get through this.

37:54Oh my gosh.

37:55We're deep into this thing.

37:56All right.

37:57Uh, so, so basically as Enoch is warning, uh, warning us, uh, he says, these are, these

38:06are grumblers and malcontents, uh, he's saying he's referring to the ungodly sinners that

38:11have spoken against him, um, and they indulge their mouths under bombastic nonsense, flattering

38:18people to their advantage.

38:20But you beloved, this is the final, this is, this is the final, uh, thrust of the, of

38:26the letter, but you beloved must remember the words previously spoken by the apostles of

38:30our Lord Jesus Christ for they say unto you, they say to you, in the last time there will

38:37be scoffers indulging their own ungodly lusts.

38:42Uh, it is these worldly people devoid of spirit that are causing divisions.

38:47I want, I did want to just quickly say, uh, it very much seems to me like Jude is saying

38:53that the time that they are in the time of the writing of Jude is the last time.

39:00It's like it's, they said unto you in the last time there will be scoffers is he saying

39:05that that is the last time, the find the end times, cause it seems like that's what he's

39:12saying.

39:13In the last time, let me see what the Greek is there, um, in verse 18, yeah, uh, there

39:19we go.

39:20Eschatu hronu, uh, so Eschatu would be of the, of the end eschaton is where that comes

39:27from.

39:28Right.

39:29Yeah.

39:30So in the, that would be the last days, the last time.

39:32So it does seem like he's, he's, he's claiming that that is the end time that they are living

39:37in the end times.

39:38Right.

39:39Yeah.

39:40And this, and this seems to be, and this is where we, we have an overlap with second

39:43Peter, uh, we have, uh, second Peter, I think it's three, yeah, second Peter, three, three.

39:49And so some folks say that this is quoting second Peter and then others would suggest,

39:53um, maybe second Peter is actually turning around and quoting this.

39:57So, um, the, the relative chronology there, uh, is, is a little tricky.

40:03But yeah, this is, this is the, the last days I think this, and this seems to me to harmonize

40:08with what we have in, in some other, uh, pseudographic literature where they're talking about how,

40:14oh, we're going to have the falling away, the, the man of lawlessness, the man of sin

40:19will be revealed.

40:20And these are ways to kind of rationalize why Jesus does not seem to have been on time

40:25for his own second coming.

40:27Right.

40:28Right.

40:29Which was supposed to be like the, this generation will not pass away before he returns.

40:32Right.

40:33So, right.

40:34So it was supposed to have happened like in a generation or two.

40:36Yeah.

40:37So I think this is probably another indicator that this is coming later in the development

40:43of the New Testament.

40:44Sure.

40:45Yes.

40:46Okay.

40:47Um, but you beloved, build, build yourselves up on your most holy faith.

40:51Carry the, in the Holy spirit, keep yourselves in the love of God, look forward to the mercy

40:56of our Lord Jesus Christ that leads to eternal life and have mercy on some who are wavering.

41:02That's an interesting little moment, uh, save others by snatching them out of the fire and

41:10have mercy on still others with fear, hating even the tunic defiled by their bodies.

41:15That, uh, so if they're really nasty, just, uh, what, yeah.

41:22And the idea is don't even touch their clothes.

41:24Yeah.

41:25Um, like it's, um, yeah, you don't even.

41:27So it's, it's kind of a thin, it's a pretty, it's a pretty thin line is telling these

41:33people they get to, uh, they get to try to walk.

41:36Yeah.

41:37It's like have mercy on some, but don't even touch the clothes of figure out which ones

41:42are the nastiest and then like hate even their garments that yeah.

41:46Yeah.

41:47All right.

41:48Well, uh, wow.

41:49We've taken plenty of time on June, on Jude, uh, congratulations to them, uh, to Jude for

41:57getting himself into the Bible, you know, I didn't make it, uh, it was quite the coo.

42:03Yeah.

42:04It was good.

42:05Uh, all right.

42:06Uh, let's move on to taking issue.

42:08All right, and the issue that we are taking today, Dan, is, uh, is an issue that people

42:17are taking with you, people are taking issue with you saying, uh, that we, and we hinted

42:23at this before that, that no part of the Bible, yeah, you have in the past said no part of

42:30the Bible is really, uh, monotheistic, um, and we've talked about that on the show before

42:36that there are, you know, that, that even though, you know, there's one God for this

42:42people or for this land or for this, you know, zone or whatever, there's no, there's no point

42:49at which they don't also believe that there are other gods.

42:53Those are just other gods that aren't for us.

42:55Right.

42:56So the issue that people take with that, uh, people have come up with many verses that

43:02they say, uh, proves you wrong.

43:07Yeah, I, I get quite a bit of that.

43:10And I've addressed these verses many times, but, um, that's, that's kind of the, uh, uh,

43:17the nature of social media is every time I make that video, there's somebody who has

43:21not seen the dozen videos before, right, where I say, by the way, this is not an exception.

43:28And they will be like, you idiot.

43:31Don't you know about this exception?

43:33And then I have to be like, uh, I've talked about this ad nauseam, but, okay, well, let

43:38me pull up a couple of these, uh, scriptures and just, uh, and just let you have at it,

43:44uh, because I will admit a lot of them sound, uh, pretty definitive.

43:49Okay.

43:50Uh, let's see, uh, declare and present your case.

43:54This is Isaiah 45 21, uh, take counsel together.

43:59Who told this long ago who declared it of old, was it not I, the Lord?

44:05There is no other God beside me, an, a righteous God and a savior.

44:10There is no one besides me.

44:13Yes.

44:14Boom.

44:15And this boom indeed, and this phrase, this idea besides me, none other besides me is repeated

44:21a bunch of times, particularly in Deuteros, Isaiah, but we also see it in Deuteronomy,

44:25Deuteronomy 32, and we also see it once in Hosea 13, which is a, a little peculiar.

44:31Hmm.

44:32But when you look at the Hebrew, uh, there are a few different phrases that can be rendered,

44:38uh, besides me, um, one is, uh, me, Baladai, which is, uh, without basically, um, uh, from

44:48without me and, uh, they're, they're a handful of others.

44:52The idea is basically the same besides me, like spatially, with me, there are not, it's,

44:59it's not like a universal apart from me, none other exist.

45:04It is, there is none other beside me.

45:08There is no other room.

45:09Yeah.

45:10Cause you can, you can, you can find a currents, uh, the use of a very similar phrases, the,

45:14uh, using the same words where like somebody says, uh, do you have a sword and he says,

45:20there is no sword besides me, uh, and you know, the idea is not nowhere in the universe.

45:25The idea is within the scope of, uh, the, uh, the rhetorical scope of the context, like

45:35if somebody says, do you have a sword and you go, there's no sword besides me, like you're

45:40saying that I can get too conveniently.

45:42Right.

45:43If they're not claiming that there are no swords in the world, right.

45:47And so the idea here is that, hey, you and me, we're having a discussion in this discussion.

45:53There's nobody else besides me.

45:55Yeah.

45:56Don't look at him.

45:57Don't look around.

45:58Do you, you look at me.

45:59Yeah.

46:00Yeah.

46:01Yeah.

46:02And, and there are a few reasons that I think this is, uh, this is clearly what is intended.

46:05Uh, I already gave you one.

46:07We can see the use of, of similar terminology that's, uh, where the statements are limited

46:13to the rhetorical scope, the context.

46:16In Isaiah, we also have a couple of places where the same statement is put into the mouths

46:21of personified cities, like Babylon and Nineveh.

46:25So for instance, um, in Isaiah 47 eight, now therefore here this you lover of pleasures

46:32who sit securely, who say in your heart, I am and there is no one besides me.

46:38I shall not sit as a widow or know the loss of children.

46:42So this is supposed to be about Babylon.

46:43So that's not the Lord talking that is Babylon talking.

46:46Right.

46:47The Lord says, who say in your heart, and then the Lord is quoting Babylon, um, you basically

46:52say in Babylon, you silly Billy, you think there's no one besides you.

46:57Okay.

46:58And the idea is not that Babylon is represented as thinking they're the only cities that exist.

47:03Right.

47:04Yeah.

47:05The idea is they think they're the only city that matters to their constituents.

47:10And this would be, and I've used this metaphor a lot.

47:14This would be like me saying, uh, you, you silly, uh, what are they now Las Vegas raiders?

47:21You think there's no one besides you.

47:24Yeah.

47:25The reality is that there's no one besides the Denver Broncos.

47:29At least that's what I could get away with back in the late nineties, no longer.

47:33But anyway, um, the, it's rhetoric, you're speaking to your own constituency saying, hey,

47:41nobody else matters, but me, um, you know, I am the main character.

47:46And so you have that, that same statement put into the mouth of, of a couple of other

47:50personified cities.

47:51So again, not saying, not a philosophical denial of the existence of other gods.

47:57It's just saying I'm the only one that matters.

48:01And is it possible that it would be better translated as beside me rather than besides

48:07me?

48:08Yeah.

48:09Is it?

48:10I think that's better.

48:11Okay.

48:12Um, because what we're going to look at is, is a bunch of this is the immediate context

48:18is God's deliverance of Israel, um, thus says the Lord, the king of Israel and his redeemer,

48:26the Lord of hosts and meaning the, um, the redeemer of Israel.

48:31I am the first and I am the last, uh, besides me, there is no God, uh, I am the Lord.

48:39There is no other besides me.

48:40There is no God.

48:41I arm you though you do not know me, uh, and, and then you have a bunch of, uh, you get

48:48the, the word savior brought into this as well.

48:50There is no other God besides me, a righteous God and a savior, uh, and, and the idea seems

48:55to be that God savior, there's only one for Israel and, and when we look in the context,

49:04it's always God lecturing Israel about giving credit to other gods for saving them and warning

49:11them against giving credit to other gods for saving them.

49:15So what, what God is basically saying here in Deutero, Isaiah is don't you go attributing

49:21your salvation and your well-being to other gods.

49:26There's no one else but me and, and the, I, and you know, this is kind of, uh, abusive,

49:32uh, rhetoric that you might get from a, uh, uh, domestic partner.

49:37Right.

49:38Yeah.

49:39Yeah.

49:40But the idea is basically when it comes to your safety, your well-being, your deliverance,

49:43all of that, you have no one else to thank but me.

49:47So don't go, and also presumably no one else to go to in the future, like this is, I, I'm

49:53the only, I'm your only hope, uh, Obi Wan Kenobi, right, uh, but no, it's, but it, but

49:59yeah, it's like, yeah, it very, it makes sense to say there is no one else besides me, uh,

50:08you have to come to me and that doesn't, that doesn't necessarily mean that there isn't

50:13another, another God to go to, it's just, this is, but it may, I mean, I can see why

50:19you could interpret it both ways, but, but as you're saying, contextually, uh, it makes

50:25sense that this is, that this is God just saying, don't look anywhere else.

50:31You got to, you got to come to me.

50:32Yeah.

50:33All eyes on me and, uh, and you see this in a couple other instances in Isaiah 43 10 4311

50:39is one of these places where it says, I, I am out and I, and besides me, there is no

50:44savior, um, but in 43 10, it says, you are my witnesses, says the Lord and my servant

50:50whom I have chosen so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he before

50:55me, no God was formed, nor shall there be any after me.

50:59And this is also frequently thrown at me, when you, but the, the verb there for formed

51:04is, is Yatsar and this is a verb that is used to refer to, this is, um, what, uh, God formed

51:10Adam from the dust of the earth.

51:13This verb is frequently used to refer to, uh, the creation of pottery.

51:18And so a, a clay entity that is formed would be a divine image.

51:23And so this is Deuter Isaiah, this is post-exilic.

51:26This is after the people have been in Babylon among all the idol makers.

51:31And so the idea here is none, nothing that was formed is an actual God.

51:38And there's not going to be anything that is going to be formed with hands that's going

51:42to be an actual God.

51:43In other words, uh, you want to God don't go to the idols.

51:47I'm the only one.

51:49Uh, there's no God that was formed with human hands.

51:54And so the, the rhetoric is very similar.

51:55Basically, this is all about an exclusive relationship and whether it's talking to the

52:00other cities, whether it's, um, condemning, you know, as Syria as nothing in less than

52:05nothing, whether it's talking about who you can go to for salvation and for deliverance.

52:10God continues to say, I'm the only one that matters to you.

52:14So it's almost like it's not, there's no monotheism, but there is monogamy.

52:20Like, yeah, there's, there's, there's theological monogamy.

52:24Yeah.

52:24And, and you, and when you go into Hosea, where Hosea is saying, you know, I don't want you

52:29to call me Bali.

52:30I want you to call me E. She, both meaning my husband, but Bali uses the word ball, which

52:37is the name of the Northwest Semitic storm deity.

52:39And so God is saying, get those nasty balls names at balls, names out of your mouth.

52:47And, um, and then, and then you, uh, you've got in the next chapter, well, actually it's

52:57a few chapters down the road.

52:59But there's this metaphor about Israel as the unfaithful wife.

53:02Right.

53:03And then, uh, Hosea 13 chapter, 13 verse four, yet I have been Adonai, your God ever since

53:09the land of Egypt, you know, no God, but me.

53:14So again, we've got the, the, um, exclusive relationship.

53:17And besides me, there is no savior, basically again, saying I'm all you got.

53:23Yeah.

53:24Nobody else is going to care about you.

53:25Nobody's going to want you.

53:26Um, but also referencing the, the, the story of the Exodus, which explicitly mentions multiple

53:33times other gods, they're very powerful and so I think that that kind of, that's another

53:40reason why that might put the lie to the idea that there aren't other gods.

53:45It's, it's, it's just this is for you.

53:48Yeah.

53:49And I think one of the most explicit examples of this, my last piece of evidence is that

53:52you have the same rhetoric in Deuteronomy, Deuteronomy 32, the song of Moses.

53:58See now that I, even I am he, there is no God besides me.

54:04That sounds pretty definitive.

54:05Right.

54:06I kill and I make alive, I wound and I heal and no one can deliver from my hand.

54:11So that's verse 39 verse 43 says bow down to him all gods.

54:20So we have, yeah, not, not only an explicit reference to other gods, but calling on them

54:26to worship God.

54:28And like, if you look in your KJV, it's not going to be in there because the Masoretic

54:31texts actually remove that part, but it's directly quoted in Psalm 97 seven.

54:37So you can just go to Psalm 97 seven for the, the preservation of that, but we know it's

54:41there because of the Dead Sea Scrolls and because of the Septuagint.

54:44Okay.

54:45And basically what you've got going on here is a reference to the other gods as subordinate

54:52to Adonai.

54:54And it's pretty impotent and pathetic rhetoric to say all the gods that we think are non-existent

55:01imaginary beings have to bow down to our God.

55:05Like that doesn't, that's, you know, that pitiful, right.

55:09The more powerful the other gods, the more impressive the rhetoric.

55:13So if you are, if you are, you know, the little brother of some gigantic, uh, empires next

55:19to you who have monumentally powerful gods and you say, yeah, well, all your gods need

55:25to bow down to our God.

55:28That's impressive rhetoric.

55:30That means something.

55:31It means nothing.

55:32If you don't believe the other gods exists, it means a lot more.

55:35If you believe not only that they exist, but that they are monumentally powerful.

55:39So the rhetoric of Deuteronomy 32 is identical and it occurs right next to an explicit recognition

55:48of the other gods.

55:50And so the only reason people think Deutero Isaiah is philosophical monotheism is because

55:55Isaiah is not willing to, is not going to call on the other gods to do anything because

56:00Isaiah thinks, um, I don't even want to talk about them.

56:04You know, they're going to be, I'm going to call them abominations and things like that.

56:07So, uh, yeah, it's just not, there's not a good case to make here that this is philosophical

56:13monotheism as we understand it.

56:15This is, it's just rhetoric.

56:18It's the same crap I said about the Broncos in 1998, um, particularly in comparison to

56:24the Raiders, uh, don't quote me on that today though, um, but, but, uh, but yeah, this is

56:32just rhetoric and people need to understand how rhetoric works.

56:37Now, I, I, I'm going to push back on something since you're making the rhetoric argument

56:42so hard.

56:43I am going to say that like when you were talking about how, you know, it rhetorically,

56:49it, that phrase had much more power if they believe that the, the, the surrounding gods

56:55are powerful and they must bow down to their God.

56:58I will also say that like that could be a rhetorical idea to the, that they don't believe

57:03in the other gods, but they say, but, but it could be rhetorically speaking.

57:09You could be saying all the other people who believe in gods that we know don't exist.

57:14Their pretend gods will all have to bow down, meaning they, they rhetorically would have

57:19to bow down to our God sort of thing, like that could still be the case could I think

57:26that would make sense if the rhetoric were being directed to those other folks.

57:30Okay.

57:31But it's, but it's not here.

57:33This is, this is internally circulating.

57:35This is, this is the, uh, the Judah heights, uh, speaking amongst themselves.

57:40Uh, and so I don't think that, uh, you know, and so that there are a couple, um, uh, degrees

57:47of separation.

57:48If you're like, Hey, you got to, I'm speaking to you, but you got to read this imagining

57:53that I'm speaking to these other people and that way the rhetoric will make better sense.

57:57Like, sure.

57:58Is it possible?

57:59Yeah.

58:00Do we have any indication in the text that that's what's going on?

58:04No, not, not based on, um, all of the other stuff that we're seeing in the context where

58:09the message is clearly to the other Judah heights saying, I'm all that matters to you.

58:15I'm the only one who can save you, which is, which is the kind of language that is used

58:21by someone who knows there are a bunch of other people around who can do the same thing,

58:26but they just need to gaslight the other folks into believing that they're the only ones.

58:32And all I can think about is that moment and best in show when he's yelling at his dog

58:37and he says, don't look at these other losers.

58:39You look at me.

58:41Uh, that, that, uh, that wasn't Eugene Levy, was it?

58:47No, no, that was, uh, oh, I don't know the actor's name, but he's, he's brilliant.

58:51Okay.

58:52Yeah.

58:53Okay.

58:54Yeah.

58:55All right.

58:56Well, I think, I think, uh, we've put that to bed for a little bit of time.

58:58And now, uh, when you, when you have people bring these up, you can refer them to the podcast

59:02and just say, go check out this episode and, uh, and all your questions will be answered

59:08and you will be unsatisfied and still be, uh, yeah, that's the, that's the nature of

59:13dogmentism.

59:14I've always wanted to do like a video or a blog post or something that starts off with,

59:18Hey, if you're listening to this, you've been sent here, either by me or by someone

59:23else who wants to drop some knowledge on you.

59:26So here's, I feel like that's kind of the, the tacit, the implicit, like, uh, intro to

59:33all of our stuff.

59:35Yeah.

59:36Yeah.

59:37Yeah.

59:38All right.

59:39Well friends, uh, that's it for today.

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