Ep 129: Biblical Sex Toys???

00:00his son Gideon was beating out wheat in the wine press which is you know just

00:05what they called it don't don't mix your grains and your grapes we we don't need

00:10to do that in the same place there's plenty of room yeah you're not beating

00:15out your wheat there in the wine press again are you Gideon these boys been

00:19no more wheat in my wine press. Damn it Gideon. I'm marking in my camper.

00:29Okay, we need to go on.

00:35Hey everybody I'm Dan McClellan and I'm Dan Beecher and you're listening to the

00:44Data Over Dogma podcast where we increase public access to the academic study of

00:48the Bible and religion and combat the spread of misinformation about the

00:53same how go things today Dan things are good it's a beautiful day you went

01:00golfing I went for a lovely walk. Excellent. Now it's time to combat some

01:06misinformation. Actually we're not going to do a lot of misinformation

01:09combating right this week. Yeah we're just going to have some fun yeah with the

01:14Bible we're going to lean into the first part of our mission statement yeah

01:19increased public access to the academic study of the Bible and religion by

01:23addressing a couple of passages from the from the Hebrew Bible yes indeed the

01:28the first thing we're going to talk about we're going to we're going to hit a

01:31judge one of the judges of judges yes and that'll be fun we're going to talk

01:37about Gideon and I'll tell you what when you first

01:41type Gideon into if you type Gideon into the by into Google you don't

01:47I thought I was going to be clever and type Gideon Bible into the Google and

01:51that is a whole other thing the Gideon Bible is its own thing so you have

01:56to type Gideon in the Bible and then you get judges six so we'll get to that

02:01that's our chapter and verse and then in the latter half of the show

02:04you're going to want to stick around for this it's our twisted scripture

02:09segment and I'll just say that we teased it a few

02:13weeks ago we talked about it we said we were going to look into it it is

02:18in Ezekiel Ezekiel and it's naughty so you're going to want to you're going to

02:25want to stay tuned for that action but first let's do a chapter and verse

02:33and this chapter and verse we're like I said we're in judges chapter six

02:38through eight six two eight yeah we're talking about

02:42about this Gideon fellow although he gets another name partway through

02:47well and this is interesting because the narrative

02:51is like he gets another name but a lot of scholars are like it sounds like

02:56that was his name originally and they just wrote a narrative to explain

03:00why he has a name that seems dedicated to a problematic

03:05deity but we'll get to that yeah yeah because

03:09it ends I don't want to give it too much away but his name

03:13is something something Paul yeah because in the god

03:16Baal yes yes yes anyway get those nasty balls

03:21out of your mouth

03:24that's the second segment of the show Dan come on

03:29uh so okay so let's start out with uh what who was this guy

03:34well uh Gideon was uh the son of Joash but I want to I want to start at the

03:39beginning of chapter six because we have uh chapter five ends with and the land

03:45had rest 40 years everybody's able to the land is able to

03:50relax and take a breath everybody chills yes 40 years is about the right

03:56amount of time for everybody to sort of forget all of the good lessons that

04:01they've learned yes and uh and and think that everything's

04:05cool forever and then start doing dumb stuff

04:10way to edit yourself there and nothing happened what are you talking about

04:16and then uh chapter six starts the way all of the the new stories

04:22start in in judges the Israelites did what was evil in the sight of the lord

04:27and so oh you you wacky fickle Israelites yeah and

04:32and so then god gives them into the hands of

04:36Midian for seven years and Midian would be this territory that's kind of south

04:42southeast of uh Israel so other side of um

04:48the Jordan but but further down south uh kind of on the east side of the Gulf of

04:54Akaba uh so this is um this is where moses is supposed to have

05:01uh met up with jethro his father in law got training and

05:06priesthood and all this kind of stuff so the relationship of Israel to

05:10to Midian is a is an interesting one but uh when you get to verse seven it says

05:14when the Israelites cried to the lord on account of the Midianites the lord sent

05:18a prophet to the Israelites and so we've got this interim prophet

05:22who just pops up out of nowhere right says thus says the lord the god of

05:26Israel i led you up from egypt and brought you out of the house of

05:28slavery and i delivered you from the hand of the

05:30Egyptians and from the hand of all who oppressed you and drove them out before

05:32you and gave you their land and i said to you i am the lord your god you shall

05:36not pay reverence to the gods of the amorites

05:39in whose land you live but you have not given heed to my voice

05:43and and immediately after that we get Gideon

05:47and as i was reading that it it sounds a little different from the rest of the

05:51narrative but in in the sbl study bible they're

05:54actually double brackets yeah i'm seeing that around the in the

05:58nrsvui as well yeah yeah so so i was like huh

06:03that's usually where uh something has been added in like this is

06:07the the long ending of mark the the story of the woman taken in adultery

06:11uh those passages have the double brackets around it as well

06:14so um and i look down at the uh at the note

06:20and uh it looks like there's a kumran manuscript

06:24one of the dead sea scrolls just straight up doesn't have

06:28verses seven through ten so uh we've got a little text critical

06:34um uh how's your father going on there so um and i and i haven't pulled up the

06:39manuscript to see if there's a case to make for uh

06:44like some kind of uh haplography which would be where maybe in the

06:49copying of the text the scribe accidentally left uh

06:54four verses out like that's a lot to leave out you usually don't see that but

06:58maybe maybe that's why but i i think what that

07:02indicates is that somebody actually threw this in

07:04afterwards this is a secondary addition to this yeah

07:07it does feel very like just sort of a preachy moment that doesn't

07:12advance the story at all or anything like that it's just sort of a like

07:17reminder yeah and it sounds kind of deuteronomistic

07:22it's it's using the language that deuteronomy and the deuteronomistic

07:26history uses this uh i brought you up from

07:30egypt gall darnit um because it uses gall darnit and that is a distinctly

07:35deuteronomistic um um rural what is where is the ancient

07:41Hebrew for gall darnit again i'm just i'm trying to remember

07:44uh it's yeah you you got to be able to pronounce the uh

07:49the the yeah um it's just it's just just like

07:54gamora is actually ramora it is uh it is an i and it's not a g

07:59oh my goodness but anyway uh and and she was also in the guardians of the galaxy

08:04now uh you get to verse 11 and you have the angel of the lord came and sat under

08:09the oak at ophra yeah along to joash the uh abi is right

08:15as his son giddian was beating out wheat in the wine press which is you know just

08:19what they called it um yeah i that confused me

08:23because it's like this whole threshing thing but like why are you threshing

08:27don't don't mix your grains and your grapes we we don't need to do that in the

08:31same place there's plenty of room why are you doing that

08:35you're not beating out your wheat there in the wine press again are you giddian

08:39these boys been beating the wheat in the wine press

08:42damn it giddian but i'm marking in my camper

08:49okay we need to go on

08:56and uh it says the angel of the lord appeared to him

08:59suddenly he's just beating his wheat and uh and the angel pops up

09:03oh that is the worst when an angel shows up right when you're beating your wheat

09:07that is uh you don't want that but okay it says the lord is with you you mighty warrior

09:12he's apparently impressed by what he saw and giddian went

09:18and uh my we are getting silly sir yes we are being silly it's been a long day

09:26serious uh episode so we need to be okay far more serious about this

09:31so we get this back and forth between the angel of the lord and giddian

09:36and you you have some odd things because it says the angel of the lord said this

09:40the angel of the lord said that giddian said this

09:43and then um verse 14 we're in the middle of this

09:47giddians like did not the lord bring us up from egypt but now the lord has cast us

09:51off and given us into the hand of midian and then verse 14 says

09:55then the lord turned to him and said go in this might of yours you weak beater

10:03and deliver israel from the hand of midian i hereby commission you

10:07and uh and giddian responds but sir how can i deliver israel my clan is the

10:12weakest in manasa and i am the least in my family

10:15the lord said to him so we've transitioned from the angel of the lord to the lord

10:20giddian does not seem to have noticed any change here right right um and it's just

10:25going back and forth um and and then we're going to get to giddian sign but

10:31but this is uh there's something interesting going on here uh

10:34i and other scholars have published arguments uh because when you look in

10:38the greek translation of this the septu agent

10:40the verses that have angel of the lord versus just lord are not identical

10:45they they switch them up a little bit okay and this is an indication that maybe

10:50the word angel there is a later edition and interpolation

10:53if you will uh in other words the story is originally

10:58adonai is the one who shows up in gaza and sorry za comes from an old mystery

11:05science theater three thousand it came out before i realized

11:09that nobody was going to get that reference except my wife who doesn't

11:12listen to our show anyway um rude she's rude

11:15the the hand of satan by the way is the um is the the particular episode but um

11:22and so an editor has probably come in here

11:26and um written in malach angel in order to

11:30muddy the waters a bit regarding who it is that's that's

11:33talking because it's it's theologically problematic

11:36that the lord would appear to him yeah and because um giddian is uh

11:43uh wants to give the lord a uh a gift present uh he goes into his house he's

11:49like wait right here and runs into his house comes back

11:52uh prepared a kid uh which would be an animal

11:56and unleaven cakes from an ifa of flower the meat he put in a basket and the

12:02broth he put in a pot and brought them to him under the oak and presented them

12:05and the angel um tells him put him on this rock pour out the broth and the angel of

12:10the lord reached out the tip of the staff that was in his hand and touched the meat

12:14and the unleaven cakes and fire sprang up from the rockins consumed the meat

12:18and the unleaven cakes and the angel of the lord vanished from his site

12:21so so god has a staff in in their hand and god is like boop

12:26and um consumes everything right and um yeah

12:31in uh so a pillar of fire and so it's it's a little problematic to have god

12:35showing up with his staff uh uh going hey what's up i was just under the

12:40shade of that tree i heard you beating your weed in here

12:43and uh came to say you've got you've got quite the arm

12:47there i mean i think we could use you it makes sense to me

12:50because right uh immediately after what you just said

12:54in verse 22 uh it says then Gideon perceived that it was the angel of the

13:00lord and Gideon said help me lord god for i've seen the angel of the lord face to

13:05face and that struck me as weird because they see angels all the time

13:10and nobody's worried about it but they're scared they're terrified of seeing the

13:15lord yes so it's so yeah it makes total sense to me like this whole

13:21chapter makes way more sense if we take away the word angel

13:26yeah and it's just god who shows up it's just god because there's there's

13:29like it kind of defeats the point you're not supposed to be able to see god's

13:33face and live according to exodus 33 20 that's what

13:36god tells Moses uh god's like i'm gonna cover your face

13:40when you walk by and i'll take my hand away and you'll see my back but you're

13:43not gonna see my face and um and so you have all these

13:47instances where somebody's like ah we've seen god uh and they're terrified

13:51uh but they don't die and it kind of defeats the point of using a messenger

13:56as an intermediary uh you know i don't want to kill him so i'm gonna

14:00send a messenger and then like they look at the messenger and die and like crap

14:05we didn't think this through um like there's no there's no reason that seeing

14:09an angel uh would threaten your life but then god's like no don't worry about it

14:14don't worry we'll make an exception for you

14:17yeah and and so these stories uh we've got Hagar we got Moses we've got Gideon

14:22in judges 13 we're gonna have Menoah and his wife who are the parents of

14:26Samson same exact thing angel of the lord and then they go ah we have seen god

14:31and we're going to die but they don't die so uh and this place to this day and

14:38this is some of the the language of the deuteronomistic literature and other

14:42literature that gives away that these stories were not written when

14:47they happened because it says um then get Gideon built an altar there to the

14:52lord and called it the lord is peace to this day it still stands at ophra

14:59which belongs to the abia's rights so this is this is something uh from

15:04hory antiquity and you know you can still go see it true down to this day

15:09so uh this is something that they're writing about much later but

15:13god is called Gideon to deliver uh the

15:17Israelites from the hand of Midian that god also called them

15:21to be delivered into right so yeah there's uh even though uh Gideon is

15:27is the the lowest on the totem pole it is house and his house is not a big deal

15:32and he's just like what the heck okay i'll go do it

15:37so it's kind of like david like i'm the youngest right right right

15:41everybody loves an underdog story yes uh and then the the first thing

15:46though that that Gideon has got to do that night the lord said to him

15:50take your father's bull the second bull seven years old

15:55don't leave don't don't take the first bull that's that's

16:00go steal your dad's car but to but take the bad one yeah not the good one

16:06leave the gun um and pull down the altar of ball that belongs to your father and

16:10cut down the sacred pole and and that is the ashara

16:13that is beside it and build an altar to the lord your god

16:17on the top of the stronghold there in proper order

16:20then take the second bull offered as a burnt offering and he does it at night

16:23just so he doesn't catch the attention and and catch any hands

16:27uh he sneaks it yeah he's a sneak yeah but but this is

16:31interesting because we've got we're getting altars to

16:33to add an eye all over the place this is prior to

16:37the uh well this is after deuteronomy ostensibly if you're following the

16:42canon this is supposed to be after god is like don't build anything

16:46anywhere except for the place that i will choose hint and Jerusalem

16:50but they're having you know the lord appears to Gideon and Gideon's like

16:55altar and then the lord's like go build an altar

16:57altar and so we've got altars popping up all over the place to worship

17:01Adonai um so first we got a first we got to take down

17:05ball and uh and and ashras right so so we we take them down the next day

17:13everybody wakes up and they're like huh poor qua and who has done this

17:18and after searching and inquiring they were told Gideon son of Joash did it

17:23so they go to Joash they say bring out your son so that he may die for his

17:27pull down the altar of ball and cut down the sacred pole beside it

17:30and Joash according to the text is Joash's stuff

17:38and pull down the yeah pull down the altar of ball that belongs to your

17:42father okay so it's Joash's stuff but Joash is

17:46is just kind of like well you got to do what you got to do

17:49and uh and just let's it go uh Joash said will you contend for ball

17:55or will you defend his cause whoever contends for him shall be put to death

17:59by morning if he is a god let him contend for himself

18:02because his altar has been pulled down and and this is the story

18:06um because the name Jero Ball means ball contends

18:10right but and and this seems to probably have been Gideon's original name

18:17um but why why is the hero of the story um

18:21named after ball right well let's tell a story

18:25that changes the significance of the name

18:28and so now the the name kind of becomes

18:32let ball contend like yeah it is right or or contend against ball or something

18:37like that yeah there is because we've heard

18:41uh names that mean x god contends before

18:47well that's what it uh what is real probably means

18:50right exactly is l contends and so yeah so it's interesting to to hear it

18:57in this context now uh uh but with a different god

19:02as the uh as the sort of the the subject

19:11and so verse 32 says therefore on that day Gideon was called Jero Ball

19:15that is to say let ball contend against him because he pulled down his altar

19:20okay so you know that's as what you do when somebody

19:23destroys an altar to a deity you name them after that deed

19:27but but in a way that sticks it to the deity

19:31that makes tons of sense yeah so the the more likely theory that you're espousing

19:37is that his name was Jero Ball because he probably worshiped ball

19:43and yeah and and so he had a name or he was part of a group that worshiped

19:48ball so it made sense to give him a theophoric

19:52is that right that's right yeah it works see i learned i learned some things

19:57but it makes sense to give him a theophoric name with ball in the name

20:01uh because because that would have just been natural

20:05yeah and and ball just means lord or master

20:08right or husband um we're gonna we're gonna just

20:12slide right on by that um and uh when we get to hosea we can talk more about

20:17that but uh so it could be a title for Adonai

20:22for all we know he was was given this this uh name

20:27and named after Adonai but i and and here's what what i think gives away the

20:31story um in chapter seven it says then Jero Ball

20:36parenthetically that is Gideon so the narrator is kind of like um

20:42now remember remember this is the other guy um when when he's telling the story

20:47that uh that is talking about Jero Ball and so what i think

20:52happened is that the editors have this story about Jero Ball

20:56and they're like well we we got this Gideon guy let's let's fold him in

21:00yeah you just fold him in and then uh you know every time it calls him

21:05Jero Ball you just say that mean that's a reverend's

21:08a Gideon and then we'll tell a story about why

21:11Gideon had this secondary name added to him

21:14you know which happens to everybody every time somebody does something cool

21:18they didn't give you that other name that occasionally is the only name they

21:22know for you um so so i think that's probably part

21:26of the editorial layering going on here um

21:31and and so uh now we have uh Gideon who's been commissioned by God you'll

21:36recall he did the fingers uh and he's got to go against the

21:40Midianites and uh we've got a couple of ways that

21:45Gideon is is going to figure out how to do this

21:48first Gideon is like i need some signs man yeah this was this was a little

21:53baffling to me because he called he says to God

21:57i mean he met the guy he saw the magic rock

22:01flames trick yeah but he still says to God hey

22:06if i'm going to do this you're going to have to give me some signs

22:10uh proving that you're you and blah blah and he does this whole thing with

22:15the fleece but i before we get to the fleece

22:18aren't there places in the bible that specifically say don't ask for signs

22:24yes yes and and this is probably because they

22:28the the notion develop that you should have enough faith to not ask God to

22:33prove it to you right but then we've got a bunch of places

22:36where God is like you want to sign i'll give you sign

22:39where people are like no no no no no and God's like you get in a sign

22:43and um and here we have no no no there's no

22:46no no no no here this is just a here i'm going to tell you exactly what i

22:51want you to do yeah and if you do it then maybe i'll

22:56believe or maybe i'll make you do the opposite of it

22:59and then i'll believe yeah because he because and so what he does just

23:03quickly is that he he lays a fleece of wool on the

23:08threshing floor because the uh i guess the the wine press was not available

23:17at the time uh and he and he said if there's

23:21dew on the fleece alone and not on the ground

23:24then i know that it's you uh that you're going to deliver Israel as you have said

23:29blah blah blah and that happens he's there there's

23:34no dew on the ground there's he squeezes a full bowl of water out of the fleece

23:38yep and then he's like okay but like let's do it

23:42again only reverse it and this time no dew in the in the fleece

23:46and do all over the ground and then then i'll definitely believe you

23:51so calling for two signs that just seems like it's pure balls

23:56at this point that just seems like yeah and he's being humble about it he's like

24:00please don't be mad at me um just your your humble enobedian servant would

24:05like you to do another sign yeah um and then uh there

24:10we have 30 000 i think troops that they marshal

24:15which is obviously not uh how many people they had available to them back then

24:20uh but god is that look i've never know it's not obvious to me because i've

24:24never known like i've always been confused about

24:27the numbers of people i always imagine that these are

24:30smallish villages and whatever yeah but then you see numbers like 30 000

24:35troops and you're like oh that's way bigger than i thought it was

24:40yeah but but it but that's probably not right then is what you're saying

24:44correct okay yeah it's uh it's going to be uh

24:50a lot smaller than that these are little villages yeah for the most part

24:54i've always been so confused about that you get these huge numbers and it just

24:58sounds so wrong yeah um and so uh the lord says to

25:04giddians the troop with the troops with you are too

25:06many for me to give the midianites into your hand

25:09israel would only take the credit away from me

25:12saying my own hand has delivered me so the idea here is

25:16you're gonna route them just by pure numbers alone and then

25:20they're not gonna attribute the victory to me they're gonna say yeah we just

25:24had the numbers right right there you know and uh and so

25:28god's like send some of them home and so getting is like if you're afraid

25:34you can go home and 20 000 men uh are like thanks great thanks all

25:41right i'm out of here whoo and so there are 10 000 left and god is

25:46like still too many and so which is crazy but yeah it's okay

25:50god i mean god god really wants to pair this down

25:54yeah and so here we have this weird thing and and we're not sure we're still not

25:58sure exactly what's going on here but god is like hey uh take

26:03them down to the water uh i want to show you some

26:05and tell everybody go get a drink yeah get a drink

26:08and if they just slurp the water straight

26:11out of the uh of the lake the whatever the river uh put them in one side

26:18if they use their hand to cup water and slurp from their hand

26:23they're on the other side and then you're gonna send all the hand slurpers

26:28home so that it's just the people who bent down

26:32and uh knelt down to drink um i think you got it backwards i think the

26:37the hand people are the ones who stay uh with the

26:41all those who lap all those who lap the water with their tongues as a dog

26:45lapse you will put to one side all those who kneel down to drink put in their

26:48hands to their mouths usually to the other side

26:51um and then the lord said to giddy in with the three hundred who lapped

26:56i will deliver you and give the midianites into your hand

26:59right okay yeah i i got confused it's a confused

27:03like though it's a very confusing test yes

27:06and we're actually exactly what it's supposed to indicate yeah apparently

27:10lapping is a lapping water like a dog is a good sign for a soldier

27:15yeah so there are three hundred who lapped

27:18and so we've whittled it down from thirty thousand to three hundred so we've got

27:21ten percent uh or excuse me uh a lot less than that

27:26um uh i don't know where my math went uh don't worry about it

27:31okay and um and we're going to play a trick on the

27:34midianites yeah but but first giddy has got a

27:37sneak down to the camp uh the midianites and the

27:41amalekites uh they were uh thick as locusts

27:45and their cam camels were without number countless is the sand on the seashore

27:50and so he uh he sneaks down and he hears a man telling a dream to his comrad

27:56he said comrad i had a dream and ended a cake of barley bread tumbled into the

28:01camp of midian and came to the tendons struck it so that it fell it turned

28:05upside down and the tent collapsed um and his comrad answered

28:09this is no other than the sort of giddy and son of joe ash a man of israel

28:13into his hand god has given midian and all the army

28:17so giddy is like yes and uh that is a very weird

28:22thing for the midianites to say yeah because that is that is uh an

28:27it it like how do they know that giddy and is the one that's going to be coming

28:33against them this seems like it's a new thing

28:35but me i guess word has gotten back about the

28:40lapping soldiers or whatever the famous lapping soldiers of giddy and

28:45it just it all seems very weird but okay sure

28:49they did they had apparently giddy and has some tough

28:52bread that knocks tents down well i yeah i think the idea is that the barley

28:57bread is supposed to represent israel because they were uh

29:01they were you know big on barley uh or something big barley dudes yeah

29:05they loved them some barley yeah um and so uh what giddy and's idea is

29:12okay everybody get a trumpet and a jar here's your trump everybody so

29:17yes all three hundred of the guys nobody grab a sword everybody just grab a

29:22trumpet and a jar and then a uh a lantern

29:27yeah or something he splits them into three companies of one hundred each

29:31and they and they basically are scattered around the the midianite camp

29:36and at giddy and signal uh he's gonna blow the trump by the way so

29:41presumably everybody's asleep and they just sneak in

29:45and infiltrate the camp yeah and so uh when giddy and blows his trumpet

29:50they're all going to blow their trumpets and then they're all going to smash the

29:54empty jars that they have and i think the idea here is probably

29:58to uh give the midianites the perception of significantly inflated numbers

30:03right uh the idea being you know you only have one trumpeter per

30:08ten fifty hundred soldiers or whatever and so if you suddenly hear three hundred

30:12trumpets right that's a buttload of soldiers

30:15right and then the smashing of the jar i guess is supposed to make a really

30:20creepy sound that that is supposed to freak out well i the sense that i got

30:24because it says there's torches inside the jars

30:27so the sense that i got was that like they were they had the jars over the

30:31torches to like keep it dark while they came in broke the jars holding in the

30:36left hands the torches and in their right hands the trumpets to blow

30:40so so that suddenly it's bright in the camp or something well well they see

30:44all the they if if that's what's going on they would

30:47see all of the the lights yeah and that would give them the

30:51impression of they're surrounded by by thousands and thousands of

30:55right in other words that they had the numbers they originally had

31:00right um that's that's the impression that they want to give

31:02the uh the midianite although what's great is that instead of having

31:07actually those numbers with swords they have three hundred guys

31:12with no swords yeah blowing trumpets it just seems it just seems

31:18it's an interesting plan that the lord has come up with

31:21for for Gideon and his three hundred and then uh they cried uh or he cries

31:28out a sword for the lord and for Gideon and everybody cries out and the

31:32midianites uh run away they and and they cry out

31:38god for harry and saint george or something uh

31:43yeah so they uh so yeah they they all they basically just

31:49startle them into losing the battle yeah and it doesn't

31:54the the text doesn't say that god i i don't think it says that god gave

32:01Gideon the idea Gideon hears the telling of the dream

32:05and its interpretation he returned to the camp of

32:07evisrael and said get up for the lord has given the army of midian into

32:09your hand and then he divides the company and does

32:12yes so it's not clear from the text that that god was like okay

32:17Gideon get this we're gonna freak him out um it sounds like it was just

32:21Gideon's idea right so which which makes me wonder if god was

32:25so upset about the the soldiers not giving the credit to god

32:30because of their numbers it sounds like Gideon could boast that uh it

32:34was really his ideal although yeah although except for the dream

32:38the dream that was given to the the midianite

32:41in verse 22 it does say that uh the the the midianites

32:46is the midianites is that who we're talking about yeah i i got confused

32:50there oh the yeah the lord said every man sword

32:53against his fellow and against all the right so so they all just started

32:56fighting each other instead of fighting Gideon's troops

33:00which i think is pretty funny uh so he is playing a role

33:05Gideon basically just said you guys go in there scream a bunch play your

33:09trumpets and then stand there like torchbearers yeah

33:13and they'll all just kill each other and and you just

33:16be like i'm just i'm just the guy with the torch don't kill me

33:21and then we have we have Gideon in the 300 they they're pursuing him they came

33:25to the Jordan they cross over the Jordan uh and then they they're looking for

33:29some help they ask the people of sukkot give us some loaves of bread

33:34they're exhausted i'm pursuing the kings of midian zeba and zalmuna

33:38and the people in sukkot were like you don't look bad hungry um i don't know

33:43about this yeah i'll get they'll get mad if you guys

33:46lose they're gonna get mad at us if we give you bread

33:49yeah and and Gideon is like oh you're gonna get it when we get back

33:54um and and then they mess you up yep uh once we get some bread in us man

34:00it's over we just need some carbs uh so they're they they continue along

34:05these these routes and there's uh they catch up with zeba and zalmuna

34:10uh and and they give them what for and then they come back and obviously

34:14kill all the people who were uh who were not nice to them who didn't

34:18who didn't give them bread didn't help him out didn't do him a solid

34:23there's no it's fascinating because now we're we're in chapter 7 now

34:27and in chapter 8 now oh chapter 8 that's right

34:30uh and uh in verse 10 it's they catch up with zeba and zalmuna

34:37and their army about 15 000 men and here

34:44there's no there's no like real telling of the element of surprise has

34:51how the 300 dudes managed like the first trick worked pretty good but

34:56there's no there's no knowledge of like how the 300 guys

35:00then handled the the remaining even though it's a it's a smaller

35:05number uh than it was before 15 000 is still a lot of dudes

35:10yeah and it says 120 000 men bearing arms had fallen

35:15so 120 000 yeah these these these guys were worse swordsmen

35:22than stormtroopers are shots yeah significantly inflated

35:28yeah these guys these guys are forever killing each other and

35:32themselves rather than uh yeah and so sukkot and then penuel

35:38or peniel um they're they they both say no we're not going to help

35:43you and giddians says to both of them ooh if i had a sword

35:48um i'm gonna get you so bad and so they uh they go and they

35:52successfully defeat everybody um and come back and then

35:56obviously uh destroy the people of sukkot and penuel

36:01obviously because what else would you do yeah show mercy to them

36:06and then the israelite said to giddian rule over us you and your son and your

36:09grandson also for you have delivered us out of the hand

36:12of midian and and giddian the as humble as he is

36:16says i will not rule over you and my son will not rule over you the

36:19lord will rule over you but and we will just be the

36:23representation we've right yeah that's a cute little turn of

36:27phrase but yeah but also i don't own all of these houses

36:32god owns the house i'm just the steward little

36:37dave ramsi throwback good uh okay so then uh but but but but giddians not done

36:44he's getting that done like his little his little bout of

36:48humility does not last long yes the very next thing he does is like

36:52but by the way give me like all the gold yeah uh let me make a request of you

36:59each of you give me an earring he has taken as spoil

37:02which is not uh not asking a ton they're they're plundering the uh

37:07everybody that they're defeating and he's like just just an earring doesn't

37:10even mean presumably these are the earrings of the

37:13warriors that they just defeated yes and uh and that means that there were

37:18hundreds of thousands of them so yeah yeah if every man just gives one earring

37:24it's not going to be that big of a yeah they've got quite uh quite a lot of

37:28booty uh and so it adds up to 1,700 shekels of gold

37:33and then there's a little parenthetical remark at the end of verse 26

37:37apart from the crescents and the penance and the purple garments

37:40worn by the kings of Midian and the collars that were on the next of their

37:44camels so yeah they they got some good they got

37:48some good booty there they got some stuff those camel collars alone are

37:52worth a fortune um and and then Gideon takes that

37:59and makes an ephod out of it and put it in his town in ophra uh so an ephod

38:07um in in exodus the ephod is like a priestly

38:12vestment uh like a vest uh the thing that goes over the tunic

38:16that is supposed to uh carry like the um the precious stones and and things

38:23like this but it also seems to be used to refer to

38:26some kind of divine image some kind of tool of divination

38:31so okay it's a way to uh to inquire of god

38:37um but it's functioning like a divine image and and it's kind of like that in

38:42exodus because you it seems like there's a pouch and the uh

38:46urine and thumbam uh go in do the pouch and according to ancient jewish

38:51tradition that was kind of how the priests

38:53divine god's will right was they they use these uh seer stones for lack of a

38:59better word to to somehow divine god's will so the

39:02ephod of the the priestly ephod is is functioning

39:06like a a tool of divination as well but this can't be that i mean you can't

39:11have 1700 shekels worth of gold in an ephod

39:16and wear that yeah and so there there are scholars who

39:19think this this is some kind of cult object

39:22that is not necessarily uh a vestments uh whether it's a standing stone

39:28or some kind of anthropomorphic statuary or or whatever it might be

39:33uh this has been put up in ophra and all israel

39:37prostituted themselves to it there i'm going to look up what the word

39:41translated prostituted there is yeah because that was i saw that and was

39:46like i don't know what we're talking about now

39:48because it does seem like like to this point

39:51Gideon hasn't really done anything bad he's been great

39:55and now suddenly uh they're using what what seems to be a very negative word

40:02for what israel is doing with this ephod it seems like the the

40:07season finale of a tv show where the hero in the very last scene you're like

40:12going behind the into his private time and

40:16and then you know the out of the shadows come some kind of evil that that is

40:20associated with with your hero uh so the the verb is

40:25zanah which um which just means to be a sex worker to engage in sex work

40:31okay um to to ply your sexy wares sure uh the

40:37king james version has all israel went fither a whoring

40:40after it

40:43i love the kjv so much we're gonna go a whoring vither and yon

40:51yeah hey good let's go thither and and all four

40:57all right so i've been beating your wheat no i swear i've been a whoring

41:01i've been a whoring uh by the ephod yeah so okay so

41:06israel prostituted themselves to the ephod yeah and it became a snare

41:13yeah to Gideon and to his family yes so median was subdued before the

41:18israelites and they lifted so it doesn't say much after that like it's

41:22yeah he doesn't seem to be condemned for it

41:26it's just noting by the way he made this thing and everybody was kind of a

41:30whore about it and uh the end uh yeah this

41:37what have you got and then we get the the very next story so the land had

41:41rest 40 years in the days of Gideon and then we get the death of Gideon

41:45yeah so like so like god doesn't punish anybody for this

41:49prostituting before the ephod uh he just he did

41:54he's gonna let him have it they had a hard time with the with this battle so

41:58might as well just let him yeah the a little bit of

42:01and we and we get in verse 29 it goes back to calling him jara ball

42:05so jara ball son of joe ash went to live in his own house

42:08now Gideon had 70 sons his own offspring for he had many wives

42:14uh his his concubine who was in shechem also bore him a son and he named him

42:19abimalek and he died at a good old age and was buried in the tomb of his father

42:24joe ash at ophra and uh as soon as Gideon died the

42:28israelites relapsed that's a great rendering there uh

42:33NRSVUE I wonder what relapse is that's kind of it's got to be shoeve it's just

42:38got to be returned yeah um yep shoeve they returned and

42:42the um and prostituted themselves with the balls

42:45uh making ball burrit their god uh or ball of

42:49the covenant lord of the covenant the israelite did not remember the lord

42:53their god who had rescued them from the hand of all their enemies on every side

42:56and they did not exhibit loyalty to the house of jara ball

42:59by the way that's Gideon yeah in return for all the good that he had

43:03done to israel so oh man you you know ungrateful

43:08punks yeah get off my lawn that yeah you know there's a line in a

43:14very in a poem that i love by ee e cummings

43:18called that uh something about uh here i said all brokenhearted

43:22no no no that's everyone i believe that one's robert frost

43:27but cummings wrote something it it it the poems humanity i love you

43:32and the very last stanza says something this is a paraphrase but it's

43:37something along the lines of humanity i love you

43:40because you are continually finding the secret of life

43:44putting it in your back pocket and sitting down on it

43:47uh which is kind of he didn't capitalize

43:51any of the letters in that's right that's right it does it does feel a little

43:55like the uh the israelites are continually

43:58figuring out the secret of life yeah uh and then

44:01just 40 years later they put it in their back pocket yeah we're gonna we're

44:05gonna nail it into a crate and we're gonna stuff it into a big

44:09uh a big warehouse and forget about it yeah

44:12yeah all right and thus endeth the story here endeth the lesson

44:17yes all right well uh i don't know that we learned anything

44:21uh useful except uh there was a guy named either gideon

44:27or not uh who did some stuff all right let's move on

44:32to twisted scripture

44:36oh and there are a few of our listeners who have been waiting for this one since

44:41we teased it a few weeks ago but i don't check a bam we

44:44we are getting to we so we are in Ezekiel 16

44:49mmm uh which you have mentioned a few times on our

44:52show because uh sort of towards the bottom of it

44:56is where we learn uh where that that sodom and gomorrah were not destroyed

45:03sodom and sorry and how is it pronounced some more what was it

45:07mora okay it's pronounced however you want to pronounce

45:10however okay i want to pronounce it boston

45:14uh anyway sodom and its sister city were destroyed

45:19not because of of homosexuality but rather because

45:26uh what was it what what it's uh i'm looking at

45:31oh yeah your sister sodom uh pride was in her

45:36and she had an overabundance of bread and prosperous ease

45:40uh but she did not strengthen the hand of the poor

45:43and the needy and did abominath theonith before me

45:49yeah so uh so yeah the the sin of sodom is

45:52not helping the poor and needy yes and being

45:56haughty haughty they don't like haughtiness

45:59no uh which by the way refers to uh being

46:04high uh in the sense of exalting yourself right cocky

46:09arrogance yeah so uh anyone yeah that so that's one thing

46:16about this but there's a very there's a much more fun

46:20uh thing about this particular uh chapter

46:25the chapter starts with uh the lord coming to our who

46:30who's who is the lord coming to who's writing this theoretically

46:34it says the lord came to me well this is Ezekiel

46:39this is oh it's Ezekiel right okay so Ezekiel's writing and he says the word

46:43of the lord came to me and then he goes into this very

46:47long uh the lord is is doing a a metaphor yes

46:54god is fond of metaphors yes and it's a it's a metaphor about

46:58Jerusalem uh and Jerusalem in this metaphor

47:03is a lady uh starts out as uh as as a baby and

47:09interestingly uh this is god talking to

47:12Jerusalem and says your origin and your birth were in the land of the

47:17Canaanites your father was an amorite and your

47:21mother was a hitite she's I think that's really

47:24interesting because you you and I have you've talked about how

47:29the uh the israelite people were probably of Canaanite origin

47:34yeah and this seems to just overtly confirm that

47:38is that um is that what this is doing or is that is it or is that um

47:42am I am I being too literal in metaphor land uh well it says

47:46your your birth were in the land of the Canaanites it says your father was an

47:50amorite uh and and and that might have reference to

47:55um the notion that Abraham was an amorite

47:59oh okay um and then your mother a hitite

48:02I'm curious about that uh because they don't uh they don't

48:09say a lot about the the hitites but let me uh you are the daughter of your

48:13mother who loads her husband and her children and you are the sister of your

48:16sisters who load their husbands and their children your mother was a hitite

48:19and your father and amorite okay why are you saying this

48:23um your mother was yeah was a hamster and your father

48:28smelled the elderberries yes um let me see uh one other passage

48:35doo doo doo yeah I think that it might just be saying

48:39that's uh um badmouthing okay uh israel's there's probably

48:45something there I have just not looked into it

48:47yeah okay so anyway uh you're so we know the

48:52parentage uh as for your birth on the day you were born

48:56it basically just says you popped out nobody nobody took care of you as a

49:01baby nobody nobody nobody did all of the birth

49:04things and then they just plopped you in a field

49:07yeah uh you were abo ab horde on the day you were born

49:11right and I meaning I the lord passed by

49:15and saw you flailing about in your blood

49:19as you lay in your blood I said do you live and grow up

49:24like a plant of the field so anyway I grow the

49:28Jerusalem grows tall and arrives at full womanhood

49:33mm-hmm and it gets very explicit here your breasts were formed

49:38and your hair had grown and you were yet you were naked and bare

49:43it's it's all very sexy uh and it's about to get

49:46sexier um but but anyway the lord clothes

49:51Jerusalem uh I pledged myself to you and entered into covenant with you

49:56says the lord god and you became mine then I bathed you with water and washed

50:00off the blood from you and anointed you with oh she left the blood on her the

50:04whole time that's that's weird uh and uh I

50:08closed you with embroidered cloth and with sandals of fine leather

50:13I bound you in fine linen and covered you with rich fabric

50:18rich in this case I assume means actually very expensive fabric

50:22because uh yeah it looks like it might yeah it looks like the word is silk

50:27oh okay uh I adorned you with ornaments I put bracelets on your arms a chain on

50:33your neck a ring in your nose earrings on in your ears

50:38and a beautiful crown upon your head that is some fancy stuff

50:42mm-hmm you're adorned so so she is uh richly adorned

50:47uh she's got embroidered cloth it just goes on and on and on

50:51yeah uh you had your you had choice flour and honey

50:55and oil for food you grew exceedingly beautiful

50:59fits to be a queen everybody loved you your hot

51:04uh and blah blah blah but you trusted in your beauty this is where it takes a

51:10turn in verse 15 you trusted in your beauty and you

51:13prostituted yourself because of your fame and lavished your

51:18prostitutions on any passerby you took some of your garments and made

51:23for yourself colorful high places and on them you

51:27prostituted yourself nothing like this has ever been or shall

51:32ever be you and here's uh verse 17 you took your

51:37beautiful jewels of my gold and silver that I had given you

51:42and you made for yourself male images and with them

51:48prostituted yourself yes i'm going to guess that you're

51:51pausing me on that yes uh this this is a this is an

51:58interesting little uh reference here because it says

52:01uh uh so you made for yourself salmee zachar which would mean

52:08images of men or images of male or male images uh and so

52:15the the salam the the image probably refers to a divine image

52:20so this would be some kind of cultic object but it's it but it's male

52:26so maybe it's anthropomorphic or maybe it is

52:31an image of the male member yeah um because it then says in you

52:37you uh prostituted yourself with them uh or as uh zana so

52:45you uh kjv didst commit hoardom with them yes and so there is uh

52:53we could think of this two ways the the metaphor

52:57could be saying you you prostituted yourself in the sense that

53:00you uh i am your husband yet you uh worshiped other gods

53:08and so that is the metaphor of prostitution in in hosea in Ezekiel and

53:13the other text okay except the metaphor seems to be pretty on

53:17the nose because it's not just that they uh worshiped other gods but

53:23specifically made male images yeah um so there are scholars

53:30who think this could be a reference to uh phallic images

53:35and the idea is you you are having actual sex with the

53:42male images that you created with my gold and my silver

53:47in other words we've got a holy dildo um potentially

53:53potentially in Ezekiel 16 17 this could be a divine image

53:59functioning as a dildo uh right um in in the metaphor

54:04in the metaphor okay so that that is yeah i mean

54:10there's no there's no part of this that isn't

54:13sort of a sexualized uh

54:18naughtiness like like no matter whether it's a dildo or not

54:23it's uh you're prostituted yourself there's a sexual

54:27overtone yeah right yeah so so i mean you know we're not we

54:32don't need to split hairs too much on this but it does seem very

54:36interesting uh this you made your the fact that it

54:40specifically says male images it doesn't say images of gods

54:44or of male gods or whatever it says male images

54:49yeah i don't know i think that that's a very

54:52interesting possibility i think it and it could be toying with that ambiguity

54:58it could be showing with the um the metaphor as

55:02qua metaphor uh but the imagery is is what Ezekiel is

55:06is uh right perhaps getting awful and i don't

55:10know i i did yeah i mean he painted a pretty

55:15a pretty elaborate picture before this so it does

55:20seem like maybe he's really enjoying uh

55:25splashing around in this metaphor he's uh yeah he's having a good time

55:31so yes uh i i it's possible he was very much enjoying the idea of these

55:37male images this this beautiful buxom woman that is

55:42Jerusalem yes and it is a weird idea that god is

55:47like hold up there's a baby that's my future ex-wife

55:50yeah

55:53oh man all right well that there is problematic

55:57it's it's a little weird but there's there is

56:00the and i frankly i think that we need to make the phrase

56:05the dildo of Ezekiel catch on uh that just sounds fun

56:09the the sword of the lord and of Gideon and the dildo of Ezekiel

56:14clang those together and scare off the midianites yeah

56:20put it under a pot and then break it right at the right moment and blow your

56:23trumpet and uh and all will be well all right

56:27well uh there it is with the promised dildo

56:31we we prompt we we actually followed through on something

56:34so i think that that's great um anything else we need to say about this dildo

56:40or i mean you could we could go on with the the metaphor but it just

56:44we don't i think we we might be beating this dead wheat

56:48yeah the wheat has been beat yeah yeah exactly well Ezekiel sounds like he's

56:54got to go off and beat some wheat later uh

56:57anyway the so that's it for the show today thanks everyone for joining us if

57:01you would like to become a part of helping to make this show go

57:05uh you can be like so many other of your fellow listeners and become one of our

57:09patrons over on patreon.com/dataoverdogma

57:14it's what keeps us going it's what we are so grateful for all of our patrons

57:19and it is how we keep the lights on around here so thank you so much

57:24and please consider it if you're able if you're not able you can go and leave

57:28us a five-star review over on uh wherever you wherever you

57:31get your podcasts um i was just looking through our reviews

57:36the other day and noted that there are a whole bunch of one-star reviews that

57:41are mad that that they think that we are just

57:45political hacks and we're not we don't ever actually talk about anything

57:48real or whatever so i'm hoping that even if you think

57:52that we are a four-star show you'll give us that extra star just to counteract

57:56all the grumpy one-star people because they're not being fair

58:01yeah uh anyway that's that's another thing way that you can help us out we

58:06really appreciate that uh subscribe over on youtube if you want to

58:10that all those sorts of things thanks so much to roger gaudy for

58:15editing the show and we will talk to you again next week

58:19bye everybody

58:22data overdogma is a member of the airwave media network it is a production of

58:28data overdogma media llc copyright 2025 all rights reserved