Ep 132: Peter Thiel is Bankrupt! (Theologically)

00:00You have a lot of folks who are like, "Ah, the Jesus fish is just a sideways vulva with the tail."

00:08With the tail.

00:09Sure, sure, yeah.

00:11And so this is all about worship of the divine feminine and...

00:16With her tail.

00:17With her tail.

00:18Yeah.

00:19Hey everybody, I'm Dan McClellan.

00:25And I'm Dan Beacher.

00:26You're listening to the Data Over Dogma podcast

00:29where we increase public access to the academic study of the Bible and religion

00:33and we combat the spread of misinformation about the same.

00:37How are things, Dan?

00:38We're going after a billionaire tonight.

00:41I'm stoked.

00:42Nice.

00:43It's nothing bad can happen to you if you take down a billionaire on your show, right?

00:51That's not in this economy.

00:53No.

00:54With a man in the White House?

00:56No, I don't think so.

00:59So, okay, the first thing we're doing, we're going to start off with a twisted scripture

01:05and we're going to go after Peter Thiel.

01:08And that's pretty exciting.

01:10That's going to be a lot of fun.

01:12I don't think he's going to make us...

01:15I don't think he's going to use his kingmaker status on us any time soon.

01:20And then...

01:21Well, I don't think that was in the cards to begin with.

01:23But how dare you?

01:24Yes, how dare you?

01:26I think I had a shot.

01:27I think I had a...

01:28No.

01:29And then we're going to look...

01:31We're going to do a taking issue about a little bit of symbolism, a little bit of a star.

01:41Then again, David, yes, the star of David and a rather ridiculous conspiracy theory that

01:47I've been seeing popping up around social media of late.

01:52Oh, yes.

01:54Alright, so let's just dive in with some twisted scripture.

02:01And as we said, this isn't one scripture that's being twisted.

02:07I feel like...

02:09It's basically all scripture is being twisted.

02:11But there are a couple that have been called out specifically.

02:16Yeah, Peter Teal, if you don't know, is a billionaire.

02:21He's one of the co-founders of PayPal.

02:26There's a very, very dorky picture of him and a pre-all of the surgeries.

02:34Elon Musk floating around that you probably should look up because...

02:39Whoa, how did we give those two so much power?

02:43But they have a lot of it.

02:46And Teal has become a very prominent voice in Christian circles.

02:54And he started an organization called Acts 17, which acts in this, it's an acronym or a

03:07bacterium is what they call it for because he took the thing and then went backwards with

03:13it.

03:14But it's...

03:15Oh, I have it here somewhere.

03:16I don't know what it is.

03:18It stands for Acknowledging Christ in Technology and Society.

03:25And I went and read the entire chapter of Acts 17 to see what they're on about or if it

03:33illuminates sort of what their mission is.

03:37Really?

03:38I don't know.

03:39Not a lot there.

03:40No, it's like it's basically Paul bouncing around from city to city.

03:46He starts out in Thessalonica.

03:49Yeah, the uproar at Thessalonica.

03:51I've been to Thessalonica.

03:53Yeah.

03:54Lovely area, lovely port.

03:56Yeah.

03:57City.

03:58It's one of the bigger cities of Greece now, isn't it?

04:01It is, it is, yeah, and they've got the ruins.

04:05They've got some of that going on, too.

04:07Sure.

04:08I was surprised to see around the corner from my hotel a TGF Fridays.

04:11Sure.

04:12When I visited there, went in.

04:14There was a European League basketball game on TV.

04:18Oh.

04:19And yeah, it was a surreal experience.

04:24There you go.

04:25But yeah, lovely area.

04:27Love Thessalonica.

04:28Love Greece.

04:29But yeah, there's the uproar, Paul and Silas passing through.

04:35We got the, they're going to Baroia.

04:37Yeah.

04:38Oh man.

04:39And then Paul gets to Athens.

04:41Yeah.

04:42And there's all the what have you.

04:44All the what have you.

04:45Yeah.

04:46Good.

04:47That's where he's quoting some Greek poets since we are God's offspring.

04:54All that kind of stuff.

04:56But yeah, it doesn't seem to be a mission statement.

05:00No, I think what you were wondering.

05:02It does point at a little bit of like end time stuff and we're going to get to Peter Teal

05:08and his eschatology.

05:13But it doesn't really, it's not, you know, it has some of that, you know, gods aren't made

05:21of gold or silver or stone stuff and it, and it's got some stuff that feels like, uh, you

05:29know, worry, you know, repent, uh, type stuff.

05:34But well, here's, here are a couple of passages.

05:35I'll read these real quick and let me know if, if we're looking at Teal and what he's

05:41doing through the lens of Acts 17.

05:43What is this saying?

05:44Right.

05:45Um, I'm in verse 18.

05:46Also, some Epicurean and stoic philosophers debated with him.

05:49Some said, what does this pretentious Babbler want to say?

05:53Others said he seems to be a preclaimer of foreign deities.

05:57This was because he was telling the good news about Jesus and the resurrection.

06:01So they took him and brought him to the Ariapagos.

06:04That's Mars Hill.

06:05That's the stone outcropping that is, uh, just west of, um, uh, the Acropolis and asked

06:14him, may we know what this new teaching is that you are presenting?

06:17It sounds rather strange to us.

06:19So we would like to know what it means now.

06:23So I wonder if, if the idea is that they're, they're, they're the preclaimers of this

06:27new, uh, philosophy that everybody wants to know about.

06:32Yeah.

06:33I, and yeah, it's, it, you know, it's basically this he's, and he's like, Hey, let me tell

06:41you about Jesus and then, and that's kind of it.

06:45Um, we do have an actual manifesto on the website of, uh, for the act 17 collective.

06:53Yes.

06:54That's true.

06:55Yeah.

06:56And I'll, I'll just read the, the beginning of this just so we can see how this casts

07:01any illumination on what this chapter has to do with anything at all, a manifesto for

07:06the curious, the creators and the culture shapers as humans, we are all made to worship

07:12and we'll worship something if we don't worship God, uh, not true.

07:16I hate that so much.

07:18I hear that.

07:19Everybody worship something.

07:20No, as an, as an atheist out in the world, uh, you know, I won't say prominent, but as

07:26one that is public atheist, uh, okay, I get that all the time.

07:32Well, what do you, what do you worship then?

07:34Yeah.

07:35Well, I, nothing.

07:36Am I allowed to just, I don't think I worship anything.

07:40I'm, I'm just out here living a life.

07:42I don't know what you're talking about.

07:43And if you've decided you want everyone to be worshiping something and then you just redefined

07:48worship so that it becomes something that everyone does.

07:51Right.

07:52You're kind of, you're kind of giving away the store there.

07:54Yeah.

07:55Yeah.

07:56Uh, so he continues, what are you putting your faith in?

08:00What are you worshiping?

08:01Um, I don't know about y'all, but we put our faith in blast, hard cheese.

08:06Um, that's, that is a deep cut, not too deep a cut.

08:10I mean, that's one of the most popular mystery science theater, 3000, um, compilations out

08:16there, uh, in a world where we're always building startups, audiences, reputations, it's easy

08:22to forget to ask what we're building toward fame, power, money, success.

08:27These things promise fulfillment, but often leave us wanting more.

08:30We believe there's something deeper worth exploring, not just for your work, but for

08:34your soul, not just for Sundays, but for your every day, not just to fill you, but

08:40for you to find wholeness.

08:42Great.

08:43All of that is fine and platitude, platitude, melistic, platitudinous, plus it's a max plat,

08:52platitude, it's a platypus is what it is.

08:55Um, parry the platypus.

08:58But the thing about it is that underneath that, and this, and one of the things that

09:05they're really going after is trying to capture, uh, people in Silicon Valley, um, which is

09:14notoriously, uh, or, or, or at least has a reputation for being a little hostile to,

09:21to faith.

09:22Yeah.

09:23Um, but I, but they seem to be making good ground and sort of the leading the charge,

09:30uh, one of the banner bearers, or perhaps the profit of this movement is Peter Teal.

09:38So let's talk a bit about him and sort of where, what, what he has been saying because

09:43he is also quite, um, he can be very tight-lipped.

09:48He can be very, he plays his cards pretty close to the chest, but he's starting to sort of

09:52come out of his shell.

09:53This is the guy, by the way, that like, that we have to thank for JD Vance, like he backed

10:00JD Vance when, uh, for no good reason, what, what is Vance doing that this guy's other

10:07than, yeah, I, it's all, this is all, there are pieces that are missing.

10:14Let's just put it that way.

10:15So I'm, I'm just, I'm just, uh, perusing his, um, Wikipedia, which is voluminous.

10:21Um, but I just read this, just stopped on a sentence, Teal confirmed that he had funded

10:27Hulk Hogan.

10:28So what does that mean?

10:31Okay.

10:32Um, Gawker had previously outed Teal as gay.

10:36And then when the Bolia v. Gawker lawsuit ended up with Gawker losing the case, Teal

10:42confirmed that he had funded Hulk Hogan.

10:44So it's talking about all his, his right wing and, um, conservative libertarian, um, uh,

10:52investments.

10:53Right.

10:54Yeah.

10:55Uh, who, who talks about free speech all the time, but then as is this case here to get

11:01revenge on a, on a publication that outed him as gay, he, he, uh, he funded a, a lawsuit

11:11that Hulk Hogan could not himself have come close to affording and just beat the smack

11:17out of this other, out of this, uh, this group.

11:20Yeah.

11:21Um, all right.

11:22Uh, let's get to Teal's apocalypse, uh, because he has been starting, he has started

11:29to talk about, and here's the thing, I don't doubt the sincerity of his belief.

11:36Yeah.

11:37Uh, that's not, we're not in the business of the day to over dog my podcast of casting

11:42judgment on the sincerity of anybody's religious beliefs.

11:45No, that is true.

11:46Uh, so, so what he has been talking about is, uh, he, he's been talking about the anti

11:54Christ or an anti Christ, an entity that is anti Christ and he's not particularly clear

12:02on what or, uh, or who that might be, um, he's doing a four part lecture series on the anti

12:10Christ and from what I have heard, nobody is quite sure what he's talking about.

12:17Yes.

12:18Yeah.

12:19It seems like, uh, it might be, uh, the one world government might be the anti Christ

12:24or whatever.

12:25He definitely believes that a one world government is a bad thing and it's coming.

12:29Yeah.

12:30And I like I first heard about this.

12:32I was telling you before we, uh, hit record, um, I started getting a flood of requests to

12:37respond to this interview that he did when I was in Italy with my family and it was like,

12:42I can't do this right now, man, I don't know what this dude is talking about, but I can't

12:46do this.

12:47And, um, it was an interview where he's talking about transhumanism and, um, and then goes

12:52into anti Christ stuff and the, and he appealed to a scripture.

12:57This is what stuck out from me.

12:59He, he said that the anti Christ slogan will be peace and safety.

13:05Yes.

13:06I think that is nowhere in the Bible, but I need to stop and look this up and what on

13:11earth is he talking about?

13:13And, um, he's talking about first thessalonians, uh, five, I think that five three and it,

13:21to begin the word anti Christ occurs, I think four total times in all of the Bible, four

13:27or five total times in all of the Bible, all of them in first john or second john.

13:33Oh, okay.

13:34And they are used to describe anyone who is opposed to Christ.

13:38It is a, it is mainly an adjective.

13:41That person is anti Christ or, you know, anti Christian, uh, there's one use that could

13:48suggest that it is referring to a specific individual, but, or, or certain individuals.

13:55However, that use suggests that they're already there.

13:59They have arrived when the text was written, that is now in the New Testament.

14:06So it's not something that is off in the future, but what people have done and, you know, because

14:13of the presupposition of unibokality, they're like, well, this must be talked about elsewhere.

14:18Let's go into revelation.

14:19Let's look for the big baddie and we're going to say that's the anti Christ.

14:23Let's go into Paul.

14:24Let's look at the man of lawlessness.

14:26We're going to say that's the anti Christ. And so you basically cobble together from

14:30the scattered Lego pieces from these different, uh, uh, I don't know what they call them engineers,

14:38different sets.

14:39And you're going to try to cobble together this picture of what this entity is going

14:42to be. And so he appeals appeals to first Thessalonians five three. And it's talking

14:48about, uh, now concerning the times in the seasons, brothers and sisters, you do not

14:51need to have anything written to you for you yourselves know very well that the day of the

14:55Lord will come like a thief in the night.

14:58When they say there is peace and security, then sudden destruction will come upon them

15:05as labor pains come upon a pregnant woman and there will be no escape.

15:10So, so it seems that he is interpreting this prophecy about the second coming that says

15:20it will happen when they say there is peace and security, which basically the rhetorical

15:25point there is when they least expect it, right? That's when what, you know, the son

15:30of man is going to be like, boom, gotcha. Right. Um, that's when all this is going to

15:33go down and now we've taken that and tear giversated it. And, and you've heard me use

15:40a lot of $2 words on this show. This is a $15 word. Yeah. I was, I was, uh, I was going

15:46to be very impressed if that's an actual word. It is an actual word and what's fun. The only

15:52reason I know this word and use this word is because I learned it on my mission in Spanish.

15:57Oh, and came back and I was like, there's this word. Does it exist in English? And I

16:01looked it up and I was like, sweet, it exists in English. I'm using it. And, but, but anyway,

16:07it basically means to twist, uh, something into something else to serve your own purposes.

16:13Right. To misrepresent because in no sense whatsoever is this saying the slogan of the

16:19antichrist is peace and security, but, but it sounds like he's trying to say, hey, anybody

16:25who's telling you we're going to fix the world's problems or at least we're going to try to

16:30fix the world's problems. We're going to come together and find a solution to all these

16:36social ills. He's wagging his finger saying that's the antichrist or at least that's some

16:42kind of precursor or catalyst for the antichrist. In other words, he's saying, don't do that.

16:49Don't try to fix the world's problems. Don't try to unify. Uh, this whole, you mentioned

16:54the one world government. It sounds like one of those idiotic, uh, conspiracy theories.

16:59The globalists are coming. Um, but that was the first, that was the only scripture I heard

17:06in the little bit of that, uh, interview that, that people kept tagging me in. Right. And

17:10I was like, well, this is already way off the rails. Yeah. So. And it gets only got worse.

17:16It gets more off the rails. And the further he goes and the thing that gets really weird

17:23and that I have, believe me, I've tried to parse this out. I believe that this is just

17:29a cognitive dissonance that lives in his brain. Uh, I believe that he has just made

17:35peace with, uh, something that directly contradicts himself, which is that he talks about how

17:43this one world government is coming. Uh, you know, they're talking about peace and safety.

17:49So we should be worried about that. And, uh, and there, and they're going to make a, you

17:54know, that he's worried about state control and regulation and all this stuff. He's worried

18:00about a totalitarian regime. Uh, but yet his, the one of the main points that he makes with

18:10these as his data points is we should not regulate AI, biotech, like technology should

18:19not be regulated because it's what's going to save us. Yeah. What I do shouldn't be regulated.

18:27It's only what everybody else does. And it becomes, it becomes clear why his theology

18:32is like this when you look at his investment portfolio, which includes just lists of, uh,

18:39of, you know, defense contracting. Uh, he, he, he, he's the founder of palant, palantir,

18:47which is a battlefield intel, like data, um, aggregator sort of thing. Uh, but he's also

18:56heavily invested in, uh, a company called and, and drill industries, which is drones and

19:03like AI tower, AI, like border defense towers that we'll just. So it's Skynet. He's starting

19:10to skynet. He is skynet. Yeah. Like it's so crazy. He's invested in a bunch of different

19:17startups for cyber security and various cyber dine systems is where it's going to go next

19:23and then it'll go to Skynet. Yeah. Um, and, and yet he's, and all of these are tools that

19:30he will sell to governments that he, that are already funded by our, by governments, uh,

19:38to, uh, and so like how is this going to prevent the thing that he's scared of? The thing that

19:46he is talking about. It's, it's literally what is going to obviously bring about the

19:52apocalypse that he is worried about. Yeah. He doesn't seem to be, uh, you know, we're,

19:59we're on the, the sci fi thing, uh, you spend so much time worrying about if you could,

20:06you didn't bother to think about if you should, um, he is going to make badly quotes, uh,

20:11to badly quote, um, gold boom. Yes. You're going to make dinosaurs. I just, I don't know

20:17where his transhumanism is going to take. Yeah. Right. Certainly not off the table. Right.

20:22Um, he's going to try and get his, his own, uh, consciousness implanted into a T-rex or

20:28a T-rex. I, it's just, it's such a weird theology. The other thing, the other like biblical reference

20:40that I've seen him make that I, that I think is also telling about him and who he is. And

20:46I think, yeah, well, the story is, I think the story that we're getting to is the fact

20:52that like everybody, he has taken his theological, uh, he, he hasn't taken the Bible and then

21:02built the theology that the Bible that he sees the Bible telling him to build. He has taken

21:09his life and then taken scriptures and just, and built a theology around what he likes

21:17and what's important to him. Yeah. And what serves his interests. And then, uh, and then,

21:24and then proclaimed that as the theology as what's true. So the thing that I was getting

21:32to is he was talking about the 10 commandments. Oh, yeah. And he talked about how the most

21:39important ones are the first one and the last one. The first one is you have to believe

21:45in God. And the last one is don't covet and like immediately I thought, you know, a billionaire

21:54telling me not to covet. Yeah. Yeah. Let's just, we're just going to look in the law.

22:00Yeah. Yeah. It just rings a bit. Like just don't, don't stop voting on my stuff. Yeah.

22:07It doesn't say anything about greed. It's just about wanting other people's stuff. Yeah.

22:12If you want more of your own stuff and to multiply your own stuff, that's fine. Yeah. And if

22:20it requires taking it from, from others, as long as you're doing it your way. Yeah. What

22:28a, I think that's such an interesting attempt to just kind of take the law and just say,

22:33well, we just want the book ends. We don't need the books. Um, but, but it does suggest

22:39and this is, this is how religion works that he's just being guided by his intuitions,

22:44which are all about self preservation and about increasing one's own standing and one's own

22:49access to power and resources. So he's basically like, ooh, this is a, an intuitively, probably

22:55not consciously, um, hopefully not consciously, but intuitively his, uh, his some cop subconscious

23:02is going, this is a nice little instrument for us to, uh, uh, to play with for us to, uh,

23:09advance our, our own interests and structure power and values. And, and I think it's odd

23:13the, um, I'm looking at the manifesto for the X 17 collective. And there's a section

23:18that says what we offer. So as we host speaker events where real conversations happen, where

23:23tech founders, producers, designers and creatives talk candidly about how faith and work collide

23:30where Jesus is at the center, not as an obligation, but as an invitation. Uh, and I am, I'm just,

23:38I am made of questions. Uh, like, it's kind of like, it's kind of like, I'm, I'm thinking

23:47of, uh, what's the, what was the, the comedy show with, uh, was it called Silicon Valley?

23:53Oh yeah. I'm thinking of that, but they just, they're sprinkling in some Jesus. Yeah. Let's

23:59just give this, uh, uh, just a, a Jesus. He vibe, but everything else stays the same.

24:05Yeah. Um, it is, it is very clearly like their whole thing is how do we, how do we invite

24:14tech bros into Christianity and not, but without making them question the morality of any of

24:23the things that they're doing because because obviously you're going to lose them. If you

24:28make them question there, the more out, because there, there are serious ethical and moral

24:33questions to 90% of what Silicon Valley is producing right now. Uh, and the no one wants

24:42to ask those questions. The reason that the teal is fighting against, uh, any kind of

24:47regulation is because he doesn't want, he doesn't want any of these ethical and moral

24:54questions to get in the way of him just making gobs of money. Yeah. Like, like Palantir sounds

25:03like an apocalyptic, like that is, that is, that is Skynet. It's like, we're, we're going

25:08to create this thing that just collects all the data on everybody. Yeah. Um, and it's like

25:14you, that like the, the moral problems with that, the ethical, uh, issues with that. But

25:20if, if you're just like, Hey, all the matters is you believe and you don't come after my

25:25stuff. Yeah. Uh, like if that's your theology, then the moral, the ethical dilemmas just

25:32disappear like a fart in the wind. Well, we don't care about it. And if the, the Satan

25:38led bad guys are coming, you got to have some drones to kill them. You know what I mean?

25:44Like just get, get, get some AI drones. I, arming AI is, uh, is what's happening right

25:50now is, is what's next. And Oh, daddy, that is, yeah. You and I had ideas. You and I both

25:57know how bad AI is at, at the most basic of commands. Um, and, and we, we had the episode

26:05that we did with April, a joy, uh, asking about her book, Star Spangled Jesus. Oh, like

26:11that into chat GPT over and over and over and over again. And it could not understand

26:19that this book was written by a woman. Yeah. And kept, uh, uh, hallucinating all these

26:24different authors. Um, so, so teals doing these, uh, I think as a four part anti-Christ

26:31lectures out in San Francisco. And I have somebody on the inside, somebody who signed

26:36up for them. And, uh, and after the first one, uh, we, we talked and, and they were like,

26:43yeah, I don't know what it was about. Like it was, it was unclear what the thesis statement

26:48was. Um, but they were, they told me that there was only one scripture that was even

26:54mentioned in the whole first lecture. Uh, he evidently brought up Daniel 12 for. Okay.

27:03Which, um, says, and this is our, you know, our trusty NRSVUE, but you Daniel, keep the

27:10words secret and the book sealed until the time of the end, many shall be running back

27:16and forth and evil shall increase. Now that's not what he read in the thing. That's the

27:23NRSVUE. Okay. What he read in the thing was the King James version and, um, and I just

27:28want to read the end of it. Many shall run to and fro and knowledge shall be increased.

27:35So this is what, what Teal evidently, uh, quoted in, in some part of, of this first lecture.

27:42Um, and the idea seemed to be that this is some kind of prophecy about the end times.

27:49And, and he seemed to be appealing to the scripture, uh, to suggest that in the end times knowledge

27:57is, is going to increase. And obviously as someone who is interested in AI and transhumanism

28:02and, uh, in all this kind of stuff, he wants to suggest that he's a part of contributing

28:09to knowledge increasing and that this is maybe a sign that the end times are, are upon us.

28:16But, uh, when my friend told me that that was the scripture, the only thing from the

28:21Bible that, that, uh, Teal mentioned, I went and looked it up because I remember thinking,

28:28it strikes me that there's something weird about this verse. Um, and when I read it from

28:33the NRSVUE, it ended with an evil shall increase. And that's because, uh, um, the King James

28:42version says knowledge shall be increased. And the Hebrew there, if we look in the Masoretic

28:47text, the traditional, um, authoritative manuscript of the Hebrew Bible, uh, the last word is

28:54Hadat, which would mean the knowledge. Okay. Uh, however, this word in the Aramaic square

29:01script is sometimes indistinguishable from the word Harah, which would be the evil. Oh,

29:13and when we look at the ancient Greek translation of this passage, that's exactly what it says.

29:19Uh, and, uh, unrighteousness or evil wickedness will increase. Okay. Uh, and so I find it odd

29:28that, well, one, obviously Teal is not aware that the King James version might not be the

29:34best translation of this, but is also, uh, unaware that the prophecy to which he is appealing

29:42might say the exact opposite of what he is leveraging it to say, uh, regarding what's

29:47going on today, but also might be a little prophetic in and of itself given what we've

29:52talked about regarding the ethical, the moral, right, quandaries, risks, problems, uh, quagmire

30:00of things like, uh, unrestricted AI and Palantir and gathering in intel on all of us and

30:10all of this and making it available to the highest bidder or somebody like Donald Trump,

30:16who can't even read the word acetaminophen, uh, without just there eventually. He had,

30:23he had to comment on what a bizarre word this was. I have you, like, I, he's the kind of

30:29person where if he said it's a banana, what can it cost? Ten dollars? I would not bat

30:35an eye. Uh, like that wouldn't surprise me at all that, that he couldn't read acetaminophen,

30:41but, but if he has access to this, like, holy cow, that is, uh, that is dangerous. That

30:48is phenomenally dangerous. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's weird that teal can't see that like,

30:56all the, look, everything that I read about sort of apocalyptic bad guys in the Bible and

31:02like you point out, the Bible doesn't connect Antichrist and the beast and the, this and

31:10the that, like these are all different entities or different stories or whatever different

31:14characters in different people's narratives. Right. Uh, but let's just say for the sake

31:18of argument that they're the same or whatever. Okay. The, how teal doesn't see that it's

31:24him that he's on the bad guy side of this thing is, I mean, look, we're all the heroes

31:32of our own story. So that's just how that's going to work. But I mean, if you're going

31:40to invoke the Bible, if you're going to say that, you know, these decisions, these ideas

31:46are based on your love of your Christian faith. And you know, if you're manifesto of your

31:53organization is going to talk about centering Jesus, then don't we have to talk about no

32:01man can serve two masters, the parable of the rich fool, the rich young ruler, you know,

32:07like it camel through the eye of a needle. Like this man is a, is has wealth, the kind

32:14of wealth that no one could have imagined. Yeah. And any other time in history, why,

32:19is it, you know, it ought to be the acts for collective. Okay. The acts for coop. The act

32:28in acts for it said, who believed in Jesus came together, they were united. There was

32:34no poor among them. Oh, right. Because they all at whatever they had, they sold, right,

32:41so that they could distribute the money each according to their need. Right. So like, if

32:47you're going to call yourself a collective for graying out loud, what are you doing?

32:52Be a collective. Everybody want to be a collective until it's time to be a collective. And then,

32:57and then it's like, no, but we mean authoritarianism is where we're coming from. We want to rule

33:04the world with an iron fist. And we think giving away all of our stuff is a bummer.

33:09Yeah, no, we don't want to do that. I mean, if there's anything that Jesus had to say

33:14about money over and over and over, repeated in all of the gospels, everywhere you look,

33:21you know, Matthew, Matthew 19, Mark 10, Luke 18, all of these are just just so many scriptures

33:30where Jesus in the red letter of scriptures says you have to like the only way to get

33:38into heaven is for you to sell your stuff and give it away to the poor. This is this is something

33:44that Luke, who is the author, well, whoever was the author of Luke is most likely the author

33:50of acts repeatedly. You had the story of the rich young ruler where Jesus says he's still

33:57got one thing left to do, sell all that you have, give the money to the poor and he goes

34:00away upset because he was very wealthy. Right. And then Jesus says, yeah, look how hard it

34:05is for the wealthy to enter the kingdom of heaven. And people were like, ah, that's a

34:10one off. That was just personal counsel between Jesus and this kid. He looked at that one

34:17guy and he was like, yeah, I don't like that. But then we talked about Luke chapter 12,

34:24yeah, where the guy says, tell my brother to, to divvy up the inheritance to me. And Jesus

34:31concludes his parable of the rich fool by saying, sell your possessions to his disciples,

34:41his followers, everybody there. Yeah. He's like, sell all your possessions, give the money

34:46to the poor. And then we have, don't build that bigger barn. Don't you do it? Yeah. Because

34:51your life will be required of you, Saka. Yeah, fool. And then the same author is the

35:01one who talks about how in acts, they all lived communally, maybe not communism, but

35:06communalism at the very least, selling everything that they had. And, and we have the, the poor

35:12couple that was like, we're not going to, we're not going to sell everything. We're not

35:16going to give all the money in it. I'm going to keep a little bit. And then Peter was the

35:22one who got to say your life is required of you. Yeah. And God, in whatever way, befitted

35:30the, the circumstance God decided to off them. Yeah. So yeah, and Peter, it was such a cold

35:38line. When Peter was like the, the feet of the people who have carried off your husband's

35:44corpse are at the door for you. Yeah. Yeah. Like that is cold blooded. Hey, they're back.

35:50Yeah, they're back. And guess what? You're going to die. It's your, yeah, that's, that's

35:57pretty cold blooded. But yeah, the, the message is pretty consistent. Yeah, this, this obscene

36:03wealth is not a good thing. And, and I think, I think Teal is a good illustration of, of

36:11the rationalizing and the cognitive dissonance and the inestimable harm that can befall the

36:19world because of, of that kind of wealth being concentrated in the hands of, of one individual.

36:25Yeah. Or one, or one collective. So called. Oh gosh. All right. Well, I think we've pounded

36:33on, on poor Peter for long enough, rhetorically speaking, rhetorically speaking. I don't know

36:41what I'd do if I were actually in his presence, probably just sell out completely and let it

36:45out. I will come back on this show in a heartbeat and I've got an opportunity for you, Peter.

36:52Can't everything that I've said for the right price. Call me Peter Teal. I know you can get

36:58my number. All right. Let's, let's move on then to taking issue. And what we're taking

37:12issue with is, is a star. So this, this is a, this is an idiotic and an antisemitic conspiracy

37:23theory that I've seen. I don't know how many times on social media, and I've made a handful

37:28of videos over the years about this, but there are some, some folks out there who like to

37:34suggest that the star of date, well, first off, the star of David is not in the Bible.

37:39Right. This is, this is the six pointed star that is sort of the, the defacto symbol of

37:45Judaism and of the state of Israel. And on the Israeli flag, yeah, an upward pointed

37:52triangle over a downward pointed triangle or under, yeah, or they could be pointed, sort

37:59of diagonally to diagonally. Yeah. It's a, these are, these are equilateral triangles.

38:04They point in three directions. So just have fun with that. Take that for what it's worth.

38:09Yeah. It's just, it's a hexagram. Yeah. So, um, we have hexagrams and pentagrams and all

38:16manner of gram, um, that various grams. Yeah, you're, you're, that are used as geographic,

38:25geographic. Oh my gosh. What's the word geometric geometric designs that are used in architecture

38:32and iconography and stuff like that. Like we can, we can find this in, in India going

38:37back to like a thousand BCE, like all over the world, the hexagram is just, you know,

38:42people make hexagrams. Yeah. It's a, it's a pretty simple, but fun to look at image.

38:48Yeah. And, um, you know, we see it on, there's a, there's a hexagram on the cover, the front

38:54of the Leningrad Codex, which is the, the Masoretic text, the, the oldest complete edition

39:01of the Hebrew Bible dates to about one thousand eight CE. There's a hexagram on the cover of

39:06that. Okay. It's, um, if you go visit Capernaum and, and now's don't go, um, but if you go

39:13on, yeah, not, not, um, time to be over there, uh, for touristy purposes. Uh, but if you

39:20in Capernaum, they have, uh, some of the old like stone lent, lentils from the, um, not

39:25the, not the thing you mix soup with, but the, the thing that the architectural feature

39:31the, the, the over the door, yeah, bit of a stone or whatever. Yeah. And they have these

39:36from a synagogue. That's from like the third or fourth century CE from her name. And, and

39:41they have, you can see a hexagram carved into that and then a pentagram right next to it.

39:45So anyway, because it really didn't become associated, uh, like formally with Judaism

39:53until like the 19th century. Oh, really? Yeah. Like you, you see it being used starting

39:59in like the 14th century as something that's not just a fun design, but something that

40:03is symbolic of Judaism. It's the 19th that they're identifying with themselves. Yeah.

40:08Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And 19th century is when it becomes associated more saliently with

40:13Zionism. Ah. So, um, but there's a, there's a theory that it was borrowed from an occult

40:21symbol. Yes. And a cult symbol that's mentioned in the Bible. Oh, don't, don't, don't. Yes.

40:29Um, they say it is the star of Remfan, which I went to a Rem fan, a Renfare. Wait, no?

40:38Okay. No, you went to Burning Man. That was true. I'm pretty sure they think that that's

40:43Remfan. I'm pretty sure they would definitely associate it. Yeah. Don't put any stars up

40:49at Burning Man because they're going to get you. They'll only, they'll only tell you your

40:53worship and Remfan. So what is a Remfan? What is a Remfan? What is a Remfan? We don't know

40:59for sure, but it is probably some kind of deity associated with Saturn. Now, Remfan occurs

41:06only once in the New Testament. It's in Acts chapter seven, verse 43. And this is where

41:13Stephen is, he's about to be martyred, but he is lecturing the folks on the his, gives

41:24like a real brief history of Israel and Judaism and quotes a passage from Amos, Amos 526.

41:33And we'll get to Amos, but in Acts 743, Stephen says, no, you took along the tent of

41:40Moloch and the star of your God, Remfan, the images that you made to worship. So Stephen

41:51is, is upset about this, but he's, he's quoting a Greek translation of Amos 526.

41:58Okay. Now, when we go back into Amos 526, here's what it says in the Hebrew, you shall

42:04take up C. Koot, your king, and Kewon, your star God, your images which you made for

42:13yourself. A little different, doesn't sound quite the same. We've got a, we got a few

42:19things going on here. C. Koot is being misunderstood as having something to do with the Greek word

42:30skinny, which is like a tent. Okay. So it is being misunderstood as a reference to a tent.

42:40So in Acts, it says, you took along the tent of Moloch. In the Hebrew, we have C. Koon,

42:47your king, and the word melech king is being misunderstood by the Greek translators as

42:53Moloch, which a lot of people, which a lot of people think is this, this God of child

42:59sacrifice. Oh my God. I, you hear that all the time, yes, like in like some evangelical

43:05TikTok, somebody will be like, Moloch, you, they're worshipers of Moloch. Right. You know,

43:10I'm, and again, as an atheist, it's, I'm a Moloch worshiper somehow. Yeah. Yeah. Cats

43:17and dogs living together. Mass hysteria. Yes. But there was never any deity named Moloch

43:23that was worshipped in the ancient world. We've done, I think we've done an episode

43:27on this. Haven't we done an episode? We've mentioned it. I don't know. We've done a whole

43:30episode of it. All right. Well, in short, this is just a word that referred to a specific

43:36type of sacrifice. And the Greek translators didn't know that word. Yeah. And so they

43:41thought it was the name of some deity. So the deity Moloch never existed. Not in the sense

43:48that there were other deities running around, but this one was a fake one. Right. But in

43:53the sense that from my perspective, none of the deities existed, but I, but I get what

43:57you're saying. Yes. Yes. And then we have a key one or key yune in the Hebrew is probably

44:04a Hebrew transliteration of an Akkadian deity named Kewon, which is probably a deity associated

44:10with Saturn, your images, yada, yada, yada. But in, in short, the, this name Kewon has

44:18been replaced by the southern name Remfan, which is probably either an Egyptian or a

44:23Greco-Roman deity, minor deity, JV deity, who probably had something to do with the

44:30planet Saturn. But okay, because it mentions a star and because the star of David is a

44:36manner of star is sure, sure. The conspiracy theorists just go, and here I'm thinking of

44:45the court scene from my cousin Vinny, identical. They're just arbitrarily, right, imagining,

44:54well, this must be the same star. Yeah. Because, you know, how many stars you got out there?

45:00Not, not as, as that old fool said, billions and billions and billions. Well, no, no, there's

45:06only one. So the, this star of Remfan has to be the star of David. So there's a conspiracy

45:14theory out there that, and because of, we've also got the mistranslation Mollock, Remfan

45:20and Mollock, also must be identical. Yeah. So obviously the worship of Remfan must also

45:28involve child sacrifice, dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria, all, all of the goodies.

45:34So it's, it's an anti-Semitic conspiracy theory that suggests basically that Jewish folks

45:40in the 19th century, and, and you know, precisely the family that they think started it all,

45:47the Rothschilds. Sure, yeah. That they consciously, intentionally were like, let's take this occult

45:56star that commemorates our worship of Remfan. And well, let's make that the official symbol

46:04of Zionism and of Judaism. And, and then it gets even worse because we have a, we have

46:12a hexagram and a pentagram that are found in some literature from the 19th century. There's

46:17a, there was a book called the history and practice of magic by a French author who went

46:24by a pseudonym, Paul Christian. Okay. And he's talking basically about all this symbolism

46:33that he's found in these grim wars and, and all this kind of stuff. Yeah. And he draws

46:37a picture of a, of a medallion that on one side, it has a hexagram with a bull's head

46:45in the center of it. And then on the other side, it has a pentagram. And it's called

46:49the talisman of Saturn. And he says, it is a preservative against danger of death through

46:57apoplexy, cancer, decaying of the bones, consumption, dropsy paralysis, thissis, P H T H, I S I S,

47:09thissis against the danger of being buried alive while in a state of coma, you know,

47:16the universal anxiety. Yeah, again, against the danger of violent death through secret

47:21plotting poison or ambush. This talisman preserves women from the mortal perils, which a company

47:27or sometimes follow childbirth. If in time of war, the leader of an army hides the talisman

47:32of Saturn in a place which is in danger of falling into the enemy's hands, that enemy

47:37will be unable to cross the limits set up by the presence of the talisman and will then

47:41retreat either discouraged or overcome by a resolute counter attack. So the conspiracy

47:48theorists will suggest that this talisman that is invented in the 1850s by Paul Christian

47:58goes all the way back to the ancient world. Yes, of course. And so all all Jewish uses

48:04of this symbol are derivative of its use as a symbol of Saturn and the gods Remfan and

48:13Moloch. It's, it's always been very funny to me in the T to coin a phrase in, in the

48:21symbology, in the look, when I'm a symbologist, when one looks at symbols, when you went like

48:30when you take something as simple as a six pointed star or a five pointed star, if you

48:36want to talk about like Satanism or whatever, like, yeah, throughout the centuries throughout

48:42the millennia, lots of people are going to have used a very simple symbol like that for

48:49various different reasons. And you know, it does the fact that one, you know, if, for

48:56instance, a group of people who are naughty, start using a star, you know, a six pointed

49:04star as their symbol to that. That's not a reflection on another group of people that

49:11are just using it for their symbol. You know what I mean? Like, they don't, they don't

49:15have inherent meaning. No, just like all words. Yeah. Like, they mean what people use them

49:22to mean. And, and that's one of the foundations of conspiracy theories. Is this symbol that

49:26we think means one thing way over here must mean that same thing way over there. Right.

49:31The fact that Hitler started using a swastika doesn't affect what it meant for centuries

49:37before to the Hindu people. Yes. Who used a swastika? Like, yes. It doesn't mean that

49:44they were for those, for low those many centuries, you know, anti-Semitic and, and, and interested

49:52in the promotion of the Aryan race or something. Yes. And not fascists. Right. Although Aryan,

49:59the word Aryan does come from sort of India. Now, oh, now I'm in a really weird place. Okay.

50:07Now I've got a conspiracy theory. I'm working on it. I'll come back to you. Keep your hand

50:11on the rope. Don't get to, um, there, there's another shape. There's some conspiracy theories

50:16associated with this. Do you know what a mandorla is? I think you heard that word mandala.

50:22Mandorlean. No. The mandorlean. No, a mandorla is an almond shape. So if you take two circles

50:35and you move them so that you have, um, kind of two semicircles that connect and create an almond

50:41shape. Okay. Yes. That is a mandorla. Right. And that has been a very common, um, geometric,

50:49not geographic, um, geometric design throughout history around the world. Sure. But, uh, in some

50:57places it has been used as, as symbolic of a vulva. Right. And, uh, and so you have a lot of folks who

51:06were like, ah, the Jesus fish is just a sideways vulva with, with, with the tail, with the tail.

51:13Sure, sure. Yeah. And so it's, uh, this is all about worship of the, of the, the, the divine

51:19feminine and, and, and that whole level. Yeah. Uh, but yeah, you, you get this all the time where

51:27people are like, don't you see the connection? It's like, well, I see that one group is using a

51:33symbol one way and another group is using a symbol another way and you want to insist that

51:38you're in charge of what the symbols are allowed to mean. Right. Um, and it just doesn't work like

51:44that. Um, and so yeah, ooh, but, uh, yeah, the conspiracy theories are, are, are wild regarding

51:53the, the Magandavi, the star of David. Well, let's get back to the star of David. Just briefly,

51:58can you talk about, why is it called that? How, how, how was it linked to David? Um, well, you,

52:06I think you had some people who were probably imagining that, uh, this symbol went back.

52:13You, you, some people think that it was, you know, it would have been on the banners that,

52:18that King David flew or, or people imagined that this was carved into the pillars and the,

52:24the palace of, uh, of King David. Right. You also have it connected with the lion. Um,

52:30there are, you see that from time to time and including in rastafarian cultures. Okay. You will

52:38have a lion and the star of David, uh, put together. Okay. Um, the, the fact that you had an early

52:48connection between the star and Solomon, so like the, the key of Solomon is one of those old, um,

52:56grimoire type texts that some people think the, the star of David goes back to. Uh, and it is

53:05sometimes has been known as the, the seal of Solomon. Yeah. Um, I think that's probably how it gets

53:13connected with David, but I don't know how far back the name star of David is. That's so interesting.

53:20It's just, yeah, it's in the Kabbalah is probably where, um, medieval Jewish mystical literature is,

53:26is where it probably has the main association with. All right. Uh, with King David, I, that's

53:34fascinating to me because yeah, it does feel, it feels like, of, you know, this has just been

53:41the symbol of Judaism since time immemorial, but obviously that's just not the case. And, uh,

53:48and, and yeah, just now we should do the cross next. We should, uh, cross. That would be an

53:56interesting one to do also. That would be an interesting one. Well, we, we haven't done a show

54:01on, on, uh, why we think Jesus was crucified on a T-shaped cross, have we? No, because that's,

54:08and that gets into the Jehovah's Witnesses because, um, are you, are you not aware? Oh, oh, they don't,

54:16they just do like a, uh, yeah, steak, a steak. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we'll have to figure all that out.

54:21Yeah, we'll have to sort out the cross. That's a good one for, uh, for next time, uh, the, the

54:26morning of our, um, our recording when we text each other, go, what are we going to talk about?

54:31Don't give away our dirty secrets. Yeah. We, we wear our hearts on our sleeves here. Um, but yeah,

54:40it is, it is throughout the, um, Kabbalistic usage, uh, to, to do. Are you just reading Wikipedia

54:48right now? I just want to know. No. I'm, I'm looking at the internet, but no Wikipedia. Okay.

54:55Anyway, uh, yeah, I think I, it's a, it's a fascinating thing. Um, did you have more, uh, on that?

55:02No, I think I'm, I'm done complaining about this, but I admit that that, that, that, that question

55:10about like the association with David, you, I know I should have, I should have looked that up

55:15before we haven't talked about it. That's, that's my fault. Anyway, I should look up a lot of stuff

55:21before we start recording the show. You should do any amount of prep work before we start. Uh,

55:27and not just rely on the fact that you have whatever brain you were given to just remember

55:34almost all of the stuff. Uh, but I'm sure I'm grateful for that brain. I think it's fun. Uh,

55:41so there you go, friends. Uh, there's, that's the star of David. Um, hopefully Peter Teal doesn't

55:47start talking about it as being the, oh gosh, the symbol of the, of the Antichrist or something.

55:53Remfan. Remfan. Yeah. Or, uh, actually many, some manuscripts say Ray Phon, some say

56:00Rypham, some say Rofan. Uh, they, it's written a bunch of different ways. We're not sure exactly

56:06what it is, but the conspiracy theorists all say Remfan. Okay. Because I, I think maybe that sounds

56:12the creepiest. All right. Well, uh, look out for Remfan. If you, if you see him and, uh, and you want

56:19to let us know, uh, where he's at and what, what, what he means. Uh, and otherwise, uh, if you would

56:27like to become a part of making this show happen, uh, and be one of our favorite people, you can

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56:54And, uh, we, we sure do appreciate that. Uh, our show was edited by Roger Goudy. Thank you so

57:01much for tuning in. We'll talk to you again next week. Bye everybody.

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