Ep 110: God's Swear Jar

00:00I'm curious. I would love to know for whom this was considered authoritative, like what

00:07groups out there were like, we're gonna, we got to follow the dittake, you know, and,

00:11and our household, we follow the dittake. You're keeping an apostle in your room for

00:15more than two days. How long has he been here? A day? Okay, you're fine.

00:20Have some go. Hey, everybody, I'm Dan McClellan. And I'm Dan Beecher. And you're listening

00:30to the Data Over Dogma podcast where we increase public access to the academic study of the

00:35Bible and religion. And we combat the spread of misinformation about the same. How are things

00:40today, Dan? It's a glorious day. It's, it has been very lovely. I don't know what it's

00:45like downtown, but where I am, it has been pleasant and couldn't be happier. Yeah, it's

00:51go for a walk season right now. And that's always lovely. And it is also a wonderful time

00:59to discuss, to, to talk about, to have some fun with some Bible stuff, some Bible stuff.

01:06And here for a day, I'm excited. The first thing we're going to talk about is something

01:12that I had never heard of. I don't know what it is. I did some research. I mean, I kind

01:16of know what it is now, but I'm glad to learn a little bit. That's going to be fun. And

01:21I, when I read it, I mispronounce it in my mind. So you say the name of it. Dittake. Okay.

01:28So we're doing that. And then at the end of the show, you guys are going to want to stick

01:32around because it's going to be a lot of fun. We're going to talk about profanity. We're

01:36going to have some fun with some naughty words. So that's, that's going to be good. I'm going

01:42to really enjoy that. But let's do our first segment. What is that? And for this, what

01:51is that? The D to K. Mm hmm. I want to just say, died a key. Didache D doc. Anyway, the

02:03died age. Yeah. The died. You can, you can look up the spelling in the show notes if

02:07you want to, but talk to me about this thing, because it's actually like the more I read

02:14about it, the more exciting it kind of was. Yeah, it is. It's a fascinating text. It's

02:19not a very long text. It's, uh, shakes out to about 16 chapters, I think, with like seven

02:26to 10 ish versus per chapter. That's, you know what, that you can't call that a chapter.

02:31They're cheating. That's, that's a paragraph, really. Those are sections. Those are, yeah.

02:38And so it is, it dates to around the end of the first century or beginning of the second

02:45century CE scholars have, um, have kind of wiggled back and forth on where exactly to

02:51date this. But usually you're going to find people say somewhere between 70 and 110 CE.

02:56So this is something that was probably in circulation before some of our new Testament

03:02texts were even written. Right. And, um, the, the didache, the, the, um, didache, uh, if

03:10you're nasty, it is, um, it's basically a kind of an instruction book. Didache, uh, means

03:17like teaching or doctrine or something like that. So it's basically, uh, instructions

03:22to Christians on how to be a good Christian. And it includes things like the baptismal

03:28prayer and the Eucharist prayer. And, uh, there's even kind of a secondary Eucharist

03:34prayer that some people think may be earlier than the first and may have been borrowed from

03:39a Jewish, uh, blessing on food. So a lot of cool stuff in there, but we didn't have a

03:47manuscript of it for a long time. We, we have references to it. You see the use of Caesarea,

03:52for instance, uh, in his ecclesiastical history talks about this other patristic authors make

03:57reference to, uh, this text, but we didn't have a manuscript of it until like the 1870s

04:06or something like that, like 1874. Yeah. And so we've only known about this for the last

04:12couple of hundred years. Uh, and it probably like, I, I don't know the story of, of, um,

04:20whether or not it entered into the debate about canonicity, uh, when that was going

04:25on. Oh yeah. We, we certainly have Eusebius talking about the canon in the, this is in

04:30the fourth century CE and describing it as something that is not canonical, but is like

04:35known to the churches and used in the churches, just, it's just not considered inspired and

04:41authoritative because it doesn't seem to claim apostolic authorship or anything like that.

04:47It just seems to be an anonymous dude's instructions. Um, and but if it was referenced by all of

04:55those, uh, various writers, clearly it had some sort of importance, uh, in, in the ancient

05:02times in terms of people were looking to it. As you say, like it was, it was kind of instructions

05:09for how to do Christianity, right? Mm hmm. Yeah. And I think that it was, it would have

05:16been influential in certain areas and other areas would have been like, eh, we're not

05:19so big on, on how they're doing this part interesting. Yeah. But, uh, and, and the references

05:26aren't like, and this is because of the words of the diddahay. Um, you know, uh, it's, it's

05:33not that kind of reference to the diddahay. It's like, and then there's that text over

05:37there. Um, the diddahay, as they call it, uh, those, uh, you know, those rubes over there.

05:45Um, they, they don't use that word, but we'll, they use, we'll get to profanity later in

05:49the show, but yeah. Um, but there was, uh, in, uh, Constantinople, which is now Istanbul.

05:57I've heard a whole song about that. Yeah. It's nobody's business, but the Turks. Um,

06:02and there was a, there was a guy named Metropolitan Philotheos, Briennios, who, um, found a copy

06:09of the diddahay, which was transcribed around 1056 CE. Wow. So the 11th century. So it's

06:17like 950 to 980 years, uh, after it was originally written, but that is the only manuscript of

06:26the entire thing in existence. That's crazy. And that must have been like, you know, you

06:32think about the, the, the various archeological finds that people do. You think about the,

06:37the dead sea scrolls or whatever. And, and that, those are like wildly exciting, but

06:43they're texts that we already had. Like we had versions of these texts and it just sort

06:47of, you know, you can compare and contrast. You can do a bunch of a bunch of interesting

06:52stuff with them, but like this, they must have been pooping themselves when they realized

06:57what they had. Well, I'm sure many of them were. This is, um, they, they published translations

07:04pretty well, not incredibly quickly, but, uh, the text itself was published in 1883,

07:10the Greek. So that was a full 10 years after, uh, its initial discovery and then translation

07:16in English was published in 1884, a German translation, uh, same year, French translation

07:21the year after that. So it was in circulation by the end of the 19th century and, and certainly

07:27caused a big splash, but not, not considered scripture, um, and a lot of it is, is not

07:35very surprising. Like most of it bears a striking resemblance to the gospel of Matthew. And

07:42there is also a lot that folks think might be drawn from a shared source from which,

07:49uh, the author of the epistle of Barnabas also drew. So, um, it has a bit of a family tree,

07:55um, not textually. And so it's, it's not like there was anything phenomenally ground breaking.

08:01There is one thing though, that, that is interesting, um, that is mentioned quite early on, uh,

08:06in the decay, which is a, um, condemnation of abortion. Oh, it's the earliest known Christian

08:16condemnation of abortion that exists. Interesting. Yeah. So I mean, one of the things that's

08:22almost surprising about that is that they had abortion. Like, I, I mean, I don't know

08:28that that's surprising, but it does seem like that must mean that it was in widespread.

08:32It was a widespread practice. Um, well, yeah. And, and it was, and it was linked with the

08:39Greco-Roman world along with exposure and fantaside, um, where would somebody didn't

08:45want an infant? They would just leave it out somewhere. Uh, so you have, um, I think it's

08:51in chapter three, my, uh, what does it say? Boop, boop, boop, doop, doop. I probably can't

08:59sing that. Um, it's, uh, but there's a lot of my child flee from all evil and everything

09:07like it. Like it starts off with this, uh, thing called the two ways discourse. Uh, there's,

09:12uh, there's, there are two paths, one of life and one of death. And the difference between

09:17the two paths is great. This then is the path of life. And then you have the two great commandments

09:23and then the golden rule, uh, and whatever you do not want to happen to you, do not do

09:28to another. And then you get into a lot of other stuff. And again, a lot of it, um, resonating

09:35quite a bit with, with Matthew with the sermon on the mount, uh, and stuff like that. It's

09:40funny because you hear so many people, uh, like, like one of the, one of the things that

09:44I see on like videos similar to yours were, you know, talking about myths about the Bible,

09:52one of the, one of the big myths is that the golden rule is somewhere in the Bible, which

09:56it isn't. But here it is. It's in the diddy K. Yeah. And, and you have, um, there, there's

10:03something close to the golden rule, um, and, and the New Testament, but, um, but yeah,

10:08not those exact words. And then we get into chapter two and now the second commandment

10:11of the teaching, do not murder, do not commit adultery. And then we have some things that

10:15are not really in the New Testament. Do not engage in peterasty. Okay. Uh, which is, uh,

10:22what do we have in the Greek? Uh, pedo tharistis is, uh, is the word that we have, do not commit

10:28adultery, natch, uh, do not, uh, do not engage in, or I already said that do not engage in

10:34sexual immorality. Do not steal, do not practice magic. Do not use enchanted potions. Do not

10:40abort a fetus or kill a child that is born. Um, so, uh, when people get tangled up in

10:48the whole abortion debate frequently, folks will appeal to the diddy K and say, well,

10:53it's right there. It's right there. It's, uh, it explicitly says, and whether this is

10:58and there's an argument, it's right there in the not scripture. What, what's so hard

11:03about this? Oh, well, and, and the folks who, who point that out, uh, tend to ignore some

11:09of the stuff later on in the, in the diddy K. Let me, um, yeah, for instance, I think it

11:16is in, um, chapter. Yeah. Do not shine a person in need, but share all things with your brother

11:24and do not say that anything is your own for if you are partners in what is immortal,

11:32how much more in what is mortal? Uh, huh. So yeah, that's, that's down right on American

11:39is what that is. Wait. Yes. The diddy K, what, uh, McCarthy was not a fan of the diddy

11:46K. And would interrogate it regarding whether it is now or have ever been a member of the

11:52communist party. Um, so yeah, there's, uh, there's stuff in the diddy K that, that the

11:57people who want to appeal to the beginning of chapter two are kind of like, and we repast

12:01that. We don't, uh, pay much attention to that, but there's an argument to make also

12:06that the abort of fetus part, that abortion was understood to mean after the quickening.

12:12Um, and if, and if it was prior to the quickening, they may have used a different word. I'm still

12:17tracking down the data on that. Um, but that is something that I've heard people, um, argue

12:23about that. Not sure about that. Um, and then we get 10 commandment stuff. Do not desire

12:28what belongs to your neighbor. Do not commit perjury. Do not give false testimony. Do not

12:31speak insults. Do not bear grudges. Um, do not be of two minds or speak from both sides

12:36of your mouth, or speaking from both sides of your mouth is a deadly trap. Um, so lots

12:42of good stuff. And the two ways discourse is, is, uh, represents a kind of dualism that

12:47was popular in Greco-Roman period Judaism. We see this, uh, in, for instance, the Dead

12:52Sea Scrolls, you have the suns of light and the suns of darkness. Uh, so it's this, this

12:58binary notion, uh, that the world exists in good and evil. And so you want to make sure

13:03you follow the path, uh, of the good, choose the good way. And then you have the my child,

13:10a do all this and don't do all the other stuff. And I think that's like the first five or

13:15six chapters, the two ways. Yeah. Chapters one through six are, uh, are about the two

13:20ways. Okay. And then, um, we have, we also have, um, some household code stuff. Chapter

13:29six is interesting because then it, um, where's the household? I think the household cold

13:34house, hold code stuff. I don't know how many takes I've burned making TikTok videos where

13:41I just fumble a single phrase that yes, doesn't want to roll off the tongue trippingly. Um,

13:49but, uh, it in chapter seven, you have instructions on how to baptize. You have the words you're

13:56supposed to say instructions on how to pray. You have the words you're supposed to say.

14:01I love this on chapter eight. Do not keep your fast with the hypocrites for they fast

14:07on Monday and Thursday, but you should fast on Wednesday and Friday. Okay. I, I, I want

14:15to know what beef, uh, was going on in between the, the Monday, Thursday, and the Wednesday

14:21Friday. Yeah. That's a, that, that is an interesting, uh, cause it doesn't seem like it should

14:30make a difference. It's clearly just markers as to which group you're a part of. I guess.

14:34I mean, they obviously thought there was some kind of moral underpinning to, um, you know,

14:39hump day, uh, being your fast air or what. Um, I just, and, and I don't know if the, if

14:47like hypocrites is code for Jewish folks, right? It certainly could be. This is a period

14:52when there's, there's still not entirely disentangled from, um, Judaism, uh, we, I think a lot of

14:59scholars would say we haven't quite achieved the parting of the ways yet. If this is a

15:03first century CE text. And so maybe within Judaism, there's a group that's, um, you know,

15:11the United front of Judea and right, or the people's front of Judea and then the splitters

15:16over there are the Judean people's front and, and they do Wednesday and Friday. And, um,

15:22so some schismogenesis as a David Graber might have, have called it. They're just looking

15:27for arbitrary ways to distinguish the, the in group from the out group. And then, then

15:31they focus on those arbitrary, uh, uh, identity markers very heavily. Yeah. You hit on one

15:37of the things that I actually was interested in as I was reading about this, which was

15:41the idea of sort of Jewish Christians versus non-Jewish or Gentile Christians or, you

15:52know, I like, I, and it feels like when I was reading about this, it seems like it's, it's

15:57sort of, sort of straddling a line between those or, or somehow there's, there's conversation

16:05between Jewish, like, like, like, clearly a lot of the people who followed Jesus were

16:11still prac, considered themselves practicing Jews. Yeah. Now the, the very first, the opening

16:18sentence of the entire document is, uh, the Dahi Kiriyu, Vietnam, Dodeka, Apostolon, Tsethnesine.

16:27So the teaching or the doctrine of the Lord through the 12 apostles to the Gentiles. Okay.

16:34And so the document seems to be addressing Gentile followers of Jesus. And, and, um, you

16:40remember when we had, um, Matt Thiessenani talked a little bit about how Paul seems to

16:46suggest that Judaism is an ethnic designation. And so if you become a follower of Jesus,

16:54um, who is a Gentile, you don't adopt all the trappings of the different ethnic group.

17:00You don't start to put braids in your hair. You don't do all the stuff that is, uh, that,

17:05uh, but as their identity marker, you are a distinct ethnic group, but you are a follower

17:12of Jesus. And so it seems like this is probably, um, aimed at just the Gentile followers of

17:19Jesus. Yeah. Although again, we're still in the midst of the milieu of this, um, disentanglement

17:26of, of Judaism from the followers of Jesus, which is why I've taken to not referring

17:32to Christianity or Christians in this time period. I've, I've, these days I refer to

17:38followers of Jesus or Christ followers or something like that when it's just throw out

17:44a date. When do you think, Oh gosh, I know I wake up with a, with a horse head in my

17:48bed, um, because, uh, that's, that's not my debate. Um, and, and, uh, that it is, it

17:58is a, uh, an ongoing debate. I'm just kidding. It's not that fierce, but, um, but I would

18:03say, um, folks would say probably not until like second century at the, at the earliest.

18:10Okay. So maybe this is when, when people are starting to be like, you know what? I don't

18:14think we want to be a part of this group anymore. Um, use these words. Do it. You know what?

18:20Do it Wednesday and Friday. We're, we're, we're skipping all this Monday, Thursday stuff.

18:25Yeah. And, and you know, there's just so little that we know about this period. We don't have

18:33a ton of Jewish texts from this period. The rabbinic texts are all being like edited

18:38and compiled, um, starting around 200, uh, CE. So between the second and the third century

18:44is when we get the earliest rabbinic literature and then third to fifth century, we get a

18:48big, um, bunch of other, uh, literature. And so we, apart from whatever we might discover

18:54letters or, um, uh, the Dead Sea Scrolls or things like that, we don't really have anything

19:01saying. So here's how we did the, and, and apart from Josephus, who's writing in, in the

19:06mid nineties, uh, we don't have a ton about, uh, what they were about their practices.

19:13They're, you know, the, the daily life of, uh, a Jewish household and local practices

19:19and things like that. We've reconstructed an awful lot and, and what we get between 200

19:25and 500, 600 CE, some, some of that we say, well, this was probably going on 150 years

19:32earlier in the middle of the first century CE, but we can't really save for sure. Uh,

19:36so unless we can correlate it with some, uh, archaeological data or something like that.

19:42So yeah, but, but yeah, that, that's a debate that, um, is, uh, is going on on a higher

19:47level than I operate when I got to, uh, one of the things that was interesting about this

19:52when I was thinking about it was that it did sound like I, I've come to think that it's

19:57probably not this, but when I first started reading about it, it felt like this was kind

20:01of the, the Christian Talmud, you know what I mean? It was like, it was like exploring

20:06what, what things are, but now it sounds, now it sounds like it's not unlike the Talmud.

20:12It's not, there's no conversation about which direction we could go. It's just telling you

20:17what it's supposed to be. Yeah. Yeah. It's laying down the law. Yeah. And speaking down

20:22to the, the audience as well. Okay. Uh, child, uh, this is how you're going to do things.

20:27And, um, yeah, there, there's no, uh, house, um, Hillell and, and, you know, house Steve

20:34says this, it's, uh, it's just laying it down. Right. Um, but, and there's a lot of interesting

20:40stuff in here. As we've seen, there's, uh, there's a advocacy for communalism that, um,

20:47and even a rationalization for it. Yeah. So, um, and, oh, here's another one. Um, for

20:54they love, uh, we're, we're criticizing people here. Who are we criticizing? And the path

21:01of death is like this. So chapter five is like, so that was the path of life. Here's

21:05the path of death. And then it describes all the things that people on the path of death

21:10do for they love what is vain and pursue a reward showing no mercy to the poor, no toiling

21:14for the oppressed, nor knowing the one who made them murders of children and corruptors

21:20of what God has fashioned, who turned their backs on the needy, oppressed, the afflicted

21:24and support the wealthy. They are lawless judges of the impoverished altogether sinful,

21:33be delivered children from all such people. Um, so, so these are vise lists. This is what

21:38we have in the goodness. We don't have any Christians who support the wealthy now. Yeah.

21:43We will. That would be spooky. Yeah. I mean, once you can no longer count how many homes

21:49you own, um, yeah, you're running afoul of, uh, of the dedicate. Yeah. Um, and then, uh,

22:00we have this interesting, we have the Eucharist and with respect to the Thanksgiving meal,

22:06and the Greek is F. Karystissate. Uh, and if anybody who finds themselves in Greece for any

22:12reason, F. Karysto is a good thing to, to, to learn. That's the one word that I managed

22:17to learn of modern Greek, uh, when I was there, F. Karysto. Uh, the, the other ones you got

22:23to know are nay and Okey, uh, nay means yes. Okey means means no, nay means you. Oh my gosh.

22:31That's, I'm never that cause, cause nay means no here. So nay. Yeah. Um, and with respect

22:40to the Thanksgiving meal, you shall give things as follows. First with respect to the cup,

22:44we give you thanks, our father, for the holy vine of David, your child, which you made

22:48known to us through Jesus, your child, to you be the glory forever. And with respect

22:53to the fragment of bread, we give you thanks, our father, for the life and knowledge that

22:57you made known to us through Jesus, your child, to you be the glory forever. As this fragment

23:03of bread was scattered upon the mountains and was gathered to become one. So may your church

23:06be gathered together from the ends of the earth into your kingdom for the glory and

23:10the power are yours through Jesus Christ forever. Um, and then it says, but let no one eat or

23:15drink from your Thanksgiving meal, unless they have been baptized in the name of the

23:18Lord, or also the Lord has said about this, do not give what is holy to the dogs. So.

23:28So yeah, that's a very different, uh, Eucharist prayer, uh, than, than we get from, from the

23:35other, from the, uh, the gospels. Yeah. Um, which yeah, basically is this is my, my body.

23:42This is my, my blood. Take it. And, uh, and then you have the, the very next chapter

23:48says, and when you have had enough to eat, you should give thanks as follows. We give

23:53you thanks Holy Father for your holy name, which you have made reside in our hearts and

23:57for the knowledge, faith and immortality that you made known to us through Jesus, your child,

24:01to you be the glory forever. And then it goes on. Um, and, and this is the part that's, uh,

24:07may be related to the, the Jewish, uh, blessing on, um, on the food because it, it organizationally

24:17it bears some resemblance to the beer cat, homazon, which is the, the blessing of the

24:22food, which is something that is supposed to be pronounced with the last bit of food

24:27before, uh, everybody finishes. Interesting. And that, and that might have been, some people

24:32think this might have been an earlier version of the Eucharist that that was the, the Eucharist

24:38prayer. And then later on, they were like, we're going to do our own, um, just to get

24:42a, and, and they were like, well, I really liked this other one. And so they kept it for

24:47the, uh, uh, after the meal or, um, because maybe the Eucharist was something that was

24:53done at the very end. Um, there's interesting, not a lot of, um, clarity about that kind

25:00of stuff. But, uh, and then that, that prayer ends. If anyone is holy, let him come. If

25:05anyone is not, let him repent. Mara Natha, where is that the, the, we don't know what

25:11that means. Mara is, is Aramaic for Lord and not, um, Natha would be come. Oh, okay. I,

25:19one of the things that was interesting to me about that prayer that you just said was

25:24the, uh, because, because you have talked specifically, because it was your, uh, your

25:31doctoral dissertation, the whole, the idea that his name is what resides in our hearts.

25:39That's a real, that's really interesting. Yeah. Yeah. I, you know, you, you've talked

25:45about the, the, the divine name being the, uh, the thing of power, the thing of, of, uh,

25:53sort of indicating divinity or whatever. It's just an interesting phrasing. Yeah. Well,

26:00and in the gospel of John, you have Jesus praying that, um, that the name be, uh, that

26:06everybody be protected by the name which you have given to me and the name is going to

26:11be distributed. You have in the book of Revelation and, and a name will be written on their forehead

26:16that is secret and all this kind of stuff. So, so the, the name of God is this communicable

26:22vehicle for, um, divine agency and love and glory and all that kind of stuff, uh, that

26:28yeah, you see even, uh, even there. There you go. Yeah. And then we get into the organization

26:35of the church and we get a lot of stuff about, uh, apostles and prophets. Let every apostle

26:41who comes to you be welcomed as the Lord, but he should not remain more than today. If he

26:47must, he may stay one more, but if he stays three days, he is a false prophet. Oh wow.

26:52Yeah. Okay. When an apostle leaves, you should take nothing except bread until he arrives

26:57at his nights lodging. If he asks for money, he is a false prophet. So wow, we're really,

27:03yeah, we're really cutting these, these apostles off at the legs, aren't we? Yeah. Yeah. You,

27:08you can imagine some of these pop, uh, apostles running around like, look, this just is, this

27:15per diem is just not cutting it. Um, we've got to talk with, uh, uh, we got to talk with, uh,

27:21you know, go upstairs to the 26th floor and, and we got to talk about, um, what's going on here?

27:27Yeah. Um, and yeah, every true prophet who wants to settle down with you,

27:34I don't know in what sense that, uh, settled down. I think it just means stay with you,

27:38deserves his food. So too, a true teacher like the worker deserves his food. Therefore,

27:43you shall take every first portion of the produce from the wine vat and the threshing floor and the

27:48first portion of both cattle and sheep and give it to the prophets. For they are your high priests.

27:53If you do not have a prophet, then give it to the poor. If you make bread, take the first portion

27:59and give it according to the commandment. So too, if you open a jar of wine or oil, take the first

28:03portion of it and give it to the prophets. So you got a poor one out for the homies. Right. Meaning

28:10either the prophets who are visiting you or the poor, um, and take the first portion of your.

28:16This is definitely describing like these prophets are just itinerant preachers who are just sort of

28:22going from house to house. Yeah. Like basically, Hey, can I stay at your place? I'll give you a

28:28little bit of prophecy. You give me your best food and I'll move on to the next.

28:32We'll prophesy for food, but only for one day. Right. Two max. Yeah, two max. We can do one plus,

28:43but that's all we get. Um, and then, uh, yeah, take the first portion of your money, clothing,

28:50and everything you own as it seems good to you and give it according to the commandment.

28:55So it is pretty strict rules. Yeah. Um, I'm, I'm curious. I would love to know

29:00for whom this was considered authoritative. Like what groups out there were like, we're going to,

29:06we got to follow the Dittake and, um, you know, and, you know, and, and our household, we follow the

29:11Dittake. Um, you're keeping an apostle in your room for more than two days. How long has he been

29:19here a day? Okay. You're fine. Have some go. The first portion. Yeah. Um, and, uh,

29:27and then we get into the Lord's day when you gather together, break bread, uh, after you have

29:32confessed your unlawful deeds that your sacrifice may be pure. Let no one quarreling with his neighbor

29:38join you until they are reconciled that your sacrifice may not be defiled. For this is the

29:44sacrifice mentioned by the Lord. And every place and time, bring me a pure sacrifice for, I'm a

29:48great king, says the Lord. And my name is considered marvelous among the Gentiles,

29:53which is everything on Malachi chapter one. Okay. And then it talks about bishops and deacons,

30:01gentle men who are not fond of money, uh, who are true and approved for these also conduct the

30:09ministry of prophets and teachers among you. And, uh, and then we get into chapter 16,

30:14which is the last one. And, and I can't, we're beginning to quote scriptures, uh, here. And I

30:19don't know if, if like the text just cuts off, uh, we have chapter 16 verse eight, it says,

30:25then the world will see the Lord coming in the clouds of the sky dot, dot, dot. Um, so to be

30:32continued, I guess I could, I have not looked at the actual manuscript itself to see if, if maybe

30:37that's the end of the, uh, the end of the page, or maybe they wrote, ah, right. Why would he take

30:46the time to write out? Yeah. So, um, fascinating, fascinating. I want to know what the, what the,

30:54what the coin Greek, uh, version of dot, dot, dot is, I want to see that. Is that was pronounced?

31:01Is it K, K-O-I-N-E? What is it? How do you say that? Um, coin A is yeah, but in, if you're in

31:08Greece, it's Keeney. Okay. Um, but, but Keeney is not the, the, um, the Greek that they speak.

31:15Okay. Um, or that's, that's old Greek. Right. Um, Katharayvusa is also older Greek. Um, um,

31:22Dematiki or Dematikos. I've, I've heard both. That's what most people refer to contemporary Greek as.

31:29Okay. Um, yes. But yes, that, but I'm, what I read was that this, so help me understand this.

31:36So this text was written in the, uh, the coin A. Is that what? Yeah. You just told me. Yeah. It

31:44was written in that. And so is that, is that contemporary with, uh, with the ancient times,

31:50or is that contemporary with the, you said that the, this manuscript is from. Oh, the manuscript's

31:56from the 11th century, but yeah, it is, it is preserved. It, it preserves much older Greek.

32:02Okay. Which is one of the reasons that scholars, um, agree that this, this is

32:07our best shot at, at reconstructing what it may have looked like in, in the first century CE.

32:14Right. I would have to, I would love to do some text critical stuff on this, you know,

32:18whenever I just have a handful of extra days with nothing else to do. Um, but, uh, I would be

32:24interested to see what relationship the, this manuscript has to the quotations we have from,

32:30uh, if we have quotations from those patristic authors, or if we just have

32:35Yawn Didickay, uh, kind of oblique references. So, um, yeah. All right. So that's the Didickay.

32:43There you go. Very interesting, uh, little, little bit of non-canonical scripture. Yeah. Well,

32:51and, and I'm, uh, a couple of notes that, uh, I'm seeing, uh, Clement evidently quotes it as scripture.

32:59Okay. And that would probably, I don't know if that's Clement of Rome or Clement

33:02of Alexandria, uh, it's Clement, it's, it's Clement of West Philadelphia.

33:08Born and raised. Um, but, uh, it's also a part of the Ethiopian Orthodox to Wachato churches,

33:17canon. Oh, okay. And those, those manuscripts date to, to later, but it sounds like we don't have

33:22a complete manuscript, at least not in Greek. I would have to see what we do have

33:27in Ethiopia. Um, but I'm, and, and we have discovered fragments. We have discovered,

33:34like Oxyrinkus papyrus, we've, we've discovered some fragments of this there. So, so we have some

33:39things that go back many centuries prior to this manuscript, but the manuscript is the only

33:44full complete manuscript we have, or at least evidently is the fullest we have. So interesting.

33:51All right. Well, that was awesome. That was very interesting. And now let's, uh, let's talk

33:57dirty with, watch your language. All right. Uh, I, not that kind of talking dirty.

34:06No, but why not? Well, to some, well, we can do that. We can do that. We can do that.

34:11There's a little bit of that. There's, there's, you know, I've, I've seen song of Solomon. You

34:15can't trick me. There's plenty of talking dirty. Yeah. So what are we talking about here? We're

34:21talking about profanity. Yeah. I, I get asked frequently, is there any swearing or profanity

34:27in the Bible? Okay. So like the ancient, the ancient Hebrew, the ancient Greek. Yeah. Does

34:34it include, uh, some swears? Cause I, you know, when I was looking at this a little bit,

34:39obviously there are lots of, uh, there are, the internet is replete with articles about

34:45why profanity is bad and biblical reasons why we, why we need to avoid profanity. Yeah. And shame

34:53on you. But it is a fascinating question. Like, uh, you know, translators probably don't

35:01necessarily take things and make them, you know, we, do we even know how powerful words were

35:09back that like, like a skate? Cause we have a scale of how, how bad we think a certain

35:14particular swear word is now. Yeah. As far as we know the FCC back then was primarily focused on

35:20other things. But, um, yeah, we, we have, there are words that are considered, you know, a lot of

35:26kids growing up, you can't say certain words. Right. And it's, you know, it's different from family

35:31to family. Shut up is profanity in some houses. Uh huh. And you know, uh, so if there's not a one

35:39to one correspondence, they, they didn't seem to have the words that were like, okay, now you've

35:45crossed a line by using that word, but they were, they were sensitive to vulgarities. So I would,

35:51I would say it's probably more accurate to talk about vulgarities, uh, then profanity as it's

35:58conceptualized today. Um, and they had, you know, they had a few different categories of, of, um,

36:04profanities or, or vulgarities, uh, back then. But I think there is, there might be one

36:10example of something that would qualify as profanity, um, as we understand it today. And we'll get

36:17to that one, but I wanted to start with, um, Ezekiel, uh, as, as the, the great poet once said,

36:24as even Ezekiel thinks that my mind is gone. Uh, but Ezekiel was, was pretty fond of using some,

36:30some vulgar expressions, uh, particularly in talking and using this metaphor of Israel as the

36:36unfaithful wife. Um, and they're, oh, I got to remember what the passage is. I'm pretty sure it's

36:44Ezekiel. It's in my book. Give me just one, just one second. I can't, I have a stack three feet high

36:52of, uh, the finished copies of my book now. But, um, yeah, it's, it's very exciting. But there's a,

36:59there's a part where God is, uh, talking to talking about some other countries, uh, and is like, uh,

37:08yeah, you, you go down to, and, and just content warning going to use some vulgar terms in this

37:15section. So, um, he, he's, God is like, you're, you're going to go down to, to Egypt and play the

37:21whore and you're going to have, and they're going to fondle your virgin nipples and, and all this

37:25kind of stuff. And I wish I could remember the, um, but, but it's supposed to be kind of, oh,

37:31it's supposed to have the, the hearer or the reader, uh, clutching their, their pearls. It's

37:37supposed to be, uh, a little shocking. And then I'm going to have to, uh, find that one in, in a

37:43second. But, uh, the one that I have pulled up is Ezekiel 1626. You prostituted yourself with the

37:49Egyptians. Uh, and the, the NRSVUE says your lustful neighbors and the Hebrew doesn't say that.

37:57Okay. The, uh, the Hebrew says, uh, your neighbor's large of flesh, which, and, and

38:05basar, which is the word for flesh is probably a bit of a euphemism here. Uh, in other words,

38:11this means your, um, you know, your well endowed neighbors or, or maybe your aroused neighbors

38:18or something like that. You're large-membered, uh, neighbors. Uh, God seems to be sensitive about

38:24the, um, uh, what the, what the other nations of the, the earth are packing. The, the turgid nature

38:31of the Egyptians. Yeah. Because they're, they're a much larger, they were a much larger empire,

38:37uh, during most of the time the Bible was being written. And so, um, you know, God had to, to show

38:43respect for, for that. I've heard that about the ancient Egyptians. Yeah. Well, you, and, and

38:48something that my, um, doctoral supervisor and very good friend, Francesca Stavracopoula, wrote

38:53about in her book, God and Anatomy. Oh, right. Is that the, the same might be said of, of God.

38:59Isaiah, Isaiah, the, the word in Isaiah six, uh, so this is, this is Isaiah's calling,

39:05his prophetic call. He's, uh, he has a vision. He's in the temple and it says God's train filled the

39:11temple, but the word for train there is, uh, I believe the word is shoe, but it is used, uh,

39:18fundamentally it means hanger downs. Mm. And it is you, it can be used to refer to the hem of a robe

39:26or a garment. You see that a couple of times in Exodus, but then in places like Jeremiah and Ezekiel,

39:32it's used to refer to either the butt or the genitals. Sure. And so there's a way to approach

39:40this text as saying, and God's hanging dong in its filling the temple, uh, and the, the, uh,

39:49the, uh, the Sarah theme who are sitting there, they're covering, they have six wings and they're

39:53covering their eyes and they're covering themselves and it says they're covering their feet and feet

39:58can be a euphemism for genitals. And so it might be embarrassing the Sarah theme where they're like,

40:03jeez. So, um, yeah, you have that. So, so God, the God of Israel might also be, um,

40:13talked about in, uh, in the same ways.

40:17This is not the only case where, uh, uh, euphemistically jet large genitals are referred to. I, I know

40:31in Song of Solomon, I think it's Song of Solomon five. Uh, there is a thing about, uh, that is,

40:38I read this. You can correct me on this. I think it's five, four. Yes. I've got it here. It's five,

40:43fourteen that is, uh, that is translated as, uh, his body is polished ivory or something along

40:51those lines, but this says that, uh, that it is comparing the, the body to an elephant tusk.

41:01I don't know. He's got, he's got a tusk. He's, he's swinging tusk.

41:06Um, and, and the description of behemoth in Job, by the way, uh, a lot of people think it's

41:15talking about as a tail, like a, a tree branch or something like that. Uh, that's probably a

41:20euphemism as well. A lot of scholars suggest that that, that is talking about something else being

41:24like a, um, the trunk of a tree. Uh, Ezekiel 23 20 is a famous one. A lot of, a lot of folks, um,

41:31a lot of skeptical folks, a lot of people wanting to mock, uh, or derive the Bible,

41:38uh, point to this one. Um, again, we're talking about our metaphor of, uh, she increased her

41:43prostitution remembering the days of her youth when she prostituted herself in the land of Egypt.

41:47Oh, that, that's the verse I was thinking of. Okay. I'll get to them. Anyway, and lusted after her

41:53paramores there, whose members were like those of donkeys. Right. And whose emission was like that

42:00of stallions. So, um, yes, the issue of horses. Yeah. And then the next verse is thus you longed

42:08for the lewdness of your youth when the Egyptians fondled your bosom and caressed your young breasts.

42:13Um, boom. Uh, yeah, I mean, I think, uh, that is that we're getting vulgar. So yeah, there,

42:21there's some vulgarities there. And, and the idea is generate this mental imagery and have the

42:25people go, no, no, I can't take it anymore. It's too, it's too provocative. Um, in their Victorian

42:33sensitivities. Right. Um, and then, but there's also sexual violence that goes on because God is

42:39not just wagging his finger at the, uh, the naughty, uh, metaphorical wife. God also threatens to,

42:47um, threatens a lot of things, threatens to, uh, sexually shame, uh, the unfaithful wife publicly.

42:55We also have a passage in Deuteronomy, uh, Deuteronomy 28, where it actually uses what was probably a

43:05quite vulgar word. Um, you shall become engaged to a woman, but another man shall, and then the

43:11NRSVUE says another man shall lie with her, but the Hebrew does not say lie with her. Later

43:18manuscripts change the verb to say lie with her, but the verb is actually a shagal, which a lot

43:26of scholars understand to be a vulgar term for rape. Oh, wow. So it's not just that she's going

43:33to commit adultery. It's that you're going to marry a woman and then somebody else is going to,

43:38and then imagine some kind of, um, vulgar term for, um, sexually assault that new wife, but it was

43:45probably intended to be shocking. It was probably intended as something like what we would understand

43:51as profanity. Another example where the audience is supposed to go, I can't believe you said that.

43:56I mean, one of the things that we should talk about is I, is just the concept of profanity,

44:03vulgarity, and how, you know, I, I've, I've actually done a lot, quite a bit of reading

44:10about this. And, and it does, it serves contrary to some of the articles that I read about this.

44:17It serves a really good, powerful, uh, sort of psychological function. Yeah. It's, it's actually

44:26really great to have words that have extra power to them. Yeah. Because sometimes you need a little

44:32extra oomph. You need a little extra zing for whatever it is that you're doing. Yeah. And it

44:38actually has positive psychological effects. They, you know, there are studies that have been done

44:43where people can withstand more pain if they're swearing during it. Like that's literally a thing

44:49that they had them do. Yeah. And you know, people, people who swear are actually more trustworthy,

44:57apparently than people who don't. There's a, there's a sense that there's a sense in, in which it's

45:03like, uh, this person is, is being upfront about, you know, about themselves and is, and is not

45:10hiding something. And, and I think it's, I think it's interesting that the more, um,

45:15the more you reserve the profanity, the more rhetorically impactful it is. Sure. And so a lot of

45:24people, you know, you have a lot of people who are champions of profanity who would be like,

45:29why did people even think they're such things? They're just words. We shouldn't even think that

45:33they're anything different. But if, if they just become regular words that nobody thinks twice

45:37about, then they lose their, their power as the rhetorical punctuation mark, which, which, yeah,

45:43can have, um, and, uh, can be means of effective speech and, uh, and in the Bible, they're doing it.

45:52Yeah. And, and one of the ones that I really liked that I always, I, I laughed at the first

45:57time I read this. This was in the, uh, in the time period between getting baptized as a Mormon and

46:04leaving on my mission, I read the entire Bible word, cover to cover. Right. And, uh, I got to this

46:10part in first Kings and there are a few examples of it. Um, but it's first Kings 14, uh, I think

46:17is the first example where somebody is threatening. Um, and it says, therefore, uh, and this is the

46:24NRSVUE. Therefore, I will bring evil upon the house of Jeroboam. I will cut off from Jeroboam

46:31every male, both bond and free in Israel. However, it does not say male. It doesn't say Zachar,

46:37uh, in the text, it says, machine bequir, which means you're a nader against the wall.

46:46Which, um, which in the King James version, which was what I was reading this first time,

46:52it says, and we'll cut off from Jeroboam him that pisseth against the wall.

46:56So I, I think it's hilarious that the King James version, um, preserves this, like it's

47:03supposed to be kind of a euphemism, but kind of not because piss was, was kind of in that gray area

47:10when I was, um, uh, growing up and a young adult. Um, in fact, I, I can still recall my science teacher

47:17yelling at a student cause, uh, the student like was an, had an assignment to write some kind of

47:22poem about some biological process or something. And he ended it by saying, you should do that,

47:27or you'll be pissed. Science teacher just went off on him about using the word pissed. And I was

47:35like, relax, man. Yeah. Just use the word. That's one of the lesser ones. Don't worry

47:40about it. Calm down. But that's, but that's obviously supposed to, and this is one of the things that

47:44profanity does, particularly vulgar vulgarities. It's, it conjures up mental imagery of things that

47:50are generally considered, um, not fit for, you know, um, proper, uh, Israelite society. And so

47:58pisseth against the wall makes you think of, um, a man urinating and not necessarily very, um,

48:08like, uh, explicitly, but there is a little bit of evocation of that imagery. And, and so it kind of,

48:15it's, it would be the equivalent of, of him saying, I will cut off from Jeroboam every swing and dick.

48:20Right. And, um, and both bond and free in Israel, like it's, it's just a little bit of rhetorical

48:26punctuation there to kind of keep them on their toes and be like, what did he say? I love, I love

48:32how we're currently making the, the, the translators of the NRSVUE, uh, seem a little,

48:39a little prudish. Yeah. Come on, guys. Just, uh, just, uh, just preserve what, what we got there.

48:47Yeah. Just glossing right over, um, just running roughshod, uh, over these, uh, these vulgarities.

48:57Um, so when, when we do get to the, uh, the scriptures that, that sort of, that,

49:03the, some of the articles that I read say are decrying, uh, vulgar language. Um, I'm, I'm, I'm

49:12looking right now at Ephesians five, which says entirely out of place is obscene, silly, and vulgar

49:20talk, that sort of thing. What verse is that? Uh, there we go. Verse four. Yeah. I see it. I see it.

49:26And you know, there's, there's similar verses in, um, well, they, they cited a verse in Matthew five

49:33in the beatitudes in verse 22 that says, uh, but I say to you that if you are angry with a brother

49:39or sister, you will be liable to judgment. And if you insult a brother or sister, you will,

49:44you'll be liable to, to the council. And if you say you fool, you'll be liable to the hell of fire.

49:49Yeah. Um, but there are some other things that are like, Oh, uh, this is Colosians three, eight

49:56that says, but now you must get rid of all such things, anger, wrath, malice, slander,

50:01and abusive language from your mouth. Yeah. I just think, uh, you know, and the one of the

50:07articles that I read claimed that saying a swear word was abusive was that's abuse. That is, uh,

50:14what a horrible thing. I just think, uh, I think one of the things that's interesting is that, uh,

50:20What's the line from the Simpsons? Oh, my freaking ears.

50:23I, I think, you know, again, we're speaking, we're, we're talking about a non univocal, a

50:32multi vocal, uh, book. Yeah. And so I think it's interesting that you've got, you know, yeah,

50:38you've got some references that say, don't, you know, watch your language, mind your,

50:44mind your P's and Q's. And other times when the authors of the book itself aren't minding their

50:49P's and Q's. Well, here's an interesting thing to note about that. Who is supposed to be the author

50:55of Ephesians and Colossians? Paul, supposed to be Paul, but a lot of scholars don't think of

51:01Ephesians and Colossians was written by Paul. Right. And, and this is one of the reasons because

51:05Paul uses are probably our one example of something that gets close to profanity where he calls

51:10something shit. Okay. And so if we go to, um, Philippians, uh, three, eight, uh, he says, um,

51:19he's talking about how important whatever gains I had, those I have come to regard as lost because

51:25of Christ saying like, yeah, good things happen to me, but they mean nothing in light of the gospel.

51:31Verse eight, more than that, I regard everything as lost because of the surpassing value of knowing

51:36Christ, Jesus, my Lord, for his sake, I have suffered the loss of all things. And I regard them as

51:41rubbish in order that I may gain Christ. So the NRSVUE, again, our prudish little, uh,

51:46those telecansoles. Yes. Um, uh, rubbish is rendering the Greek word scheme alone. Now it's, uh,

51:57it's in the neuter plural accusative here. Um, so it's skivola, but that is not your like standard

52:06term for, for trash or garbage. Uh, it does seem to refer to excrement. Okay. And it does seem to be

52:14a little more vulgar than the standard, uh, your, your average bear. Um, and so that's why there,

52:21there are some translators who have rendered crap, inter where, where Paul's like, I've suffered

52:27the loss of all things, but it's all crap in order that I may gain Christ. Or if you really want to

52:34twist the noses of, uh, the blue noses, um, the men who struck their beards and cluck their tongues

52:42and ask what is to be done with this Homer Simpson, you could say, uh, I've suffered the loss of all

52:46things, but I consider it all shit because I, um, in order that I may gain Christ. And so it's,

52:54again, rhetorical punctuation saying it's not just that, ooh, that, that ranks that is that this has

53:01become feces. This is crap in my hands compared to Jesus. Um, and so it's, it's using a little bit of

53:09that. And it's so much more, it's so much more potent than saying it's rubbish. This has become

53:16rubbish. It's positively nasty. It just, it just sounds so much. Like it does. I, and it, and it

53:24humanizes it too. Like I would really appreciate, uh, a translation that actually went and said,

53:32shit. We had Paul saying this is shit. Just because that is, uh, because that feels,

53:38because it, it, like I say, yeah, humanizes Paul. It makes him, it makes him a person who's like,

53:45really trying to emphasize a point. Yeah. And, and I think the audience would be more like, whoa,

53:52he really means that. He feels strongly about that. Yeah. Um, and the, uh, the N E T renders

54:00dung, which is, which is what the K J V has. Okay. So, um, yeah, do, uh, and so I have suffered the

54:08loss of all things and do count them, but dung, that I may win Christ. So, um, I would, it's poopy.

54:17It's duty. Now we're getting, now we're getting all Ted Lasso. It's poopy. Oh, gosh. That man

54:27Chester, uh, dialect when he says peep. I love that. So great. Jamie Tartt. Um,

54:35you magnificent bastard. Um, and, and I would love to see translations do that more often,

54:42but you know, most, most Bible translations are trying to reach, uh, believing crowds. At least

54:51that's how they're going to move the most Bibles. Right. And, uh, and the, you know,

54:56you've got the tyranny of the, uh, the audience, the tyranny of the, the consumer of your, of your

55:02publication. And so they're going to be like, just rubbish. It seems like it's probably more than

55:07that though too. It's, there's also this sense of, we want to preserve the original meaning,

55:14the original punch of the thing, but we're also counterbalancing that with our job, which is

55:21to somehow, uh, like, honor this as a sacred holy text. Yeah. Which obviously cannot talk about

55:33bathroom stuff. Right. Right. Even though it does. And so like, so, but the modern concept,

55:39conceptualization of a holy text doesn't jive quite as strong, quite as well with, with the idea of

55:48poopy. Uh, so, so yeah, I just, I can see why it's a challenge. They're walking a line

55:56when they're, when they're choosing the, what words they're going to render, uh, these things

56:02out, but, and, and you know, that, and that doesn't even get into like socially stigmatized words,

56:10like there have, there have been, who knows how many debates among translation committees about

56:15whether to take the, the Greek word, Zulos in, in the New Testament as servant or slave,

56:21like every time I make a video about slavery in the Bible, I always get those folks who are like,

56:27you should learn Hebrew because it means servant. It doesn't mean slave. You don't know what you're

56:33talking about. Um, because people are sensitive and, um, and this is just one more example of that.

56:41There, I think there, you know, there are about a dozen passages, maybe a few more in the Bible

56:46that I, where I think the author was intentionally, um, turning the screws rhetorically and using

56:53vulgarities in order to, um, get a rise out of the audience and evoke the kind of mental imagery

57:00that's going to function as a rhetorical punctuation mark. So that they're not just, um, you know,

57:07so that the, it, it keeps them on their toes, keeps them paying attention. So yeah, there you go.

57:12So use more profanity when you're reading the Bible, man. Get out there. Get, you know, say,

57:17say some swears, have some fun in your life. Uh, you only get one shot at this thing. You might as

57:21well, might as well enjoy yourself while you're doing it. Yeah. Uh, but don't, don't offend your

57:26grandma. Uh, all right. Well, that's it for the show today. If you'd like to become a part of

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